Belt Preferance

[JR 137]

I hadn't seen that before. Wow.

So you're that guy I heard of who hadn't seen it. I was wondering who it was, but I didn't suspect it was you.

Iverson's been harassed about it several times, in good fun. He's able to have a good laugh at himself about it...

 

[Buka]

I remember when that aired, I remember thinking, Allen Iverson just doesn't get it it. And what a shame, what a wasted talent. Practice?

Let me tell you a story about Larry Bird. Slow as a cow, clumsy, couldn't jump. And one of the greatest basketball players of all time. Why? Practice.
I used to work lunches at my buddy's bar across the street from Boston Garden. I'd go over to the garden to watch Bird practice after my shift. He would be on the floor with two ball boys, and two big wire baskets with basketballs in them. He would stand on the three point line in the corner by the baseline. They would bounce him a ball and he' shoot it, then take a short side step, and they would bounce him another, and he'd shoot it and take another step. He would go all the way to the other side of the court, one step at a time, then reverse and come back. One step, one shot.

Then - he'd take one step backwards, moving farther out, and repeat the entire process. All the way over, a shot at each step. Then take a step back and do it again.

Then he would do it with his other hand. It was one of the most boring things to watch, like watching paint dry. Until you thought about what he was doing. He'd do this for over an hour. THEN - he would start practicing. The previous was just his damn warm up. And he would do this every single day.

If Allen Iverson had had that kind of work ethic he'd probably have more championships than anyone that ever lived. The damn fool.

And it's just like Martial training. Practice? Who needs practice?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I remember when that aired, I remember thinking, Allen Iverson just doesn't get it it. And what a shame, what a wasted talent. Practice?

Let me tell you a story about Larry Bird. Slow as a cow, clumsy, couldn't jump. And one of the greatest basketball players of all time. Why? Practice.
I used to work lunches at my buddy's bar across the street from Boston Garden. I'd go over to the garden to watch Bird practice after my shift. He would be on the floor with two ball boys, and two big wire baskets with basketballs in them. He would stand on the three point line in the corner by the baseline. They would bounce him a ball and he' shoot it, then take a short side step, and they would bounce him another, and he'd shoot it and take another step. He would go all the way to the other side of the court, one step at a time, then reverse and come back. One step, one shot.

Then - he'd take one step backwards, moving farther out, and repeat the entire process. All the way over, a shot at each step. Then take a step back and do it again.

Then he would do it with his other hand. It was one of the most boring things to watch, like watching paint dry. Until you thought about what he was doing. He'd do this for over an hour. THEN - he would start practicing. The previous was just his damn warm up. And he would do this every single day.

If Allen Iverson had had that kind of work ethic he'd probably have more championships than anyone that ever lived. The damn fool.

And it's just like Martial training. Practice? Who needs practice?

Are there any famous people you haven't interacted with, brother? Even my wife jokes about you, because of the stories I've passed along to her.

 

[JR 137]

I remember when that aired, I remember thinking, Allen Iverson just doesn't get it it. And what a shame, what a wasted talent. Practice?

Let me tell you a story about Larry Bird. Slow as a cow, clumsy, couldn't jump. And one of the greatest basketball players of all time. Why? Practice.
I used to work lunches at my buddy's bar across the street from Boston Garden. I'd go over to the garden to watch Bird practice after my shift. He would be on the floor with two ball boys, and two big wire baskets with basketballs in them. He would stand on the three point line in the corner by the baseline. They would bounce him a ball and he' shoot it, then take a short side step, and they would bounce him another, and he'd shoot it and take another step. He would go all the way to the other side of the court, one step at a time, then reverse and come back. One step, one shot.

Then - he'd take one step backwards, moving farther out, and repeat the entire process. All the way over, a shot at each step. Then take a step back and do it again.

Then he would do it with his other hand. It was one of the most boring things to watch, like watching paint dry. Until you thought about what he was doing. He'd do this for over an hour. THEN - he would start practicing. The previous was just his damn warm up. And he would do this every single day.

If Allen Iverson had had that kind of work ethic he'd probably have more championships than anyone that ever lived. The damn fool.

And it's just like Martial training. Practice? Who needs practice?

I've heard the same thing from multiple sources, including an athletic trainer friend of mine who worked in the NBA for another team. Everyone around him said he was the first guy in the gym, and the last guy out. Always. Michael Jordan was reportedly the same way.

Guys like that set the tone for the team. I mean, if you're one of the every day guys on the team and think you're talented enough to not have to put the extra work in, and you see this guy who's hands down the best doing this, it makes you feel like you need to too. Stuff like that is infectious.

In all fairness to Iverson, a few NBA friends of mine have said as much of a "me me me" guy as he was and came off to be, he was a great teammate in a lot of ways.

 

[Buka]

Are there any famous people you haven't interacted with, brother? Even my wife jokes about you, because of the stories I've passed along to her.

You know, working across the street and all, and the guys who worked in Boston Garden used to come in for lunch everyday - how could I not go and watch great athletes train? Used to make myself a roast beef sub, or pepper and egg, and sit down front row, center court.

It was fun. Loved watching the work ethic of men at the top of their game. Lots to learn there.

 

[jobo]

Experts disagree.
Richard Branson: Teamwork wins in a crisis

there no doubt that team work has worked for RB, he is a billionaire, the questions is rather has team work worked for all the 10s of thousands of people who be worked for him over the,decades, who are not billionaires

 

[jobo]

And you clearly don't understand the benefit (to you) of a team. Nor that the person looking out for number one is actually the least well-equipped for leadership.

but they are most commonly the ones who get promoted into positions of leadership, i do understand the benefits to me of a team. The,ability to exploit a team for your own betterment is a prime,skill n business

 

[jobo]

It sounds to me like the problem is that the team doesn't work well because of your lack of teamwork, and improves when you take a more marginal role.

no it improves when i take a managerial role, I'm very good at motivating people to do what i want them to do, which are generaly things that get me a pay rise or a promotion or both.

I'm very poor at doing things that get others a promotion and not me, thanks doesn't play well at paying the bills

 

[Gerry Seymour]

but they are most commonly the ones who get promoted into positions of leadership, i do understand the benefits to me of a team. The,ability to exploit a team for your own betterment is a prime,skill n business

Um, no.

 

[jobo]

I can't answer for how nor why others are motivated by belts. I've heard a lot of different answers from a lot of different people. Remember... just because something doesn't make sense to you doesn't mean it doesn't make sense to someone or anyone else.

The physical belt doesn't motivate me. Improvement motivates me. When I get a new shiny belt, it's definitely because I improved. Otherwise I either wouldn't get a new one or I would've skipped the previous one. So if that means I'm still motivated by new belts, then so be it. If there wasn't a belt but the process was exactly the same, it wouldn't change my motivation one bit. Saying "I'm a brown belt" is quicker and easier than saying "I'm a level X student." It's easier for a teacher I'm unfamiliar with to see my belt than it is to ask me what level student I am and have me explain what I know and don't know. So belts make my life easier.

If your hypothetical "Jobo" didn't wear his belt, but hypothetical "JR" wore his...

In the hypothetical small dojo the hypothetical "JR" and "Jobo" train at together, nothing. Once they step out of that hypothetical dojo and into an affiliated one, hypothetical "Jobo" would be given a white belt, be made to practice solely with the white belts, and would only work on white belt syllabus material.

In the real dojo I train at, if you decided you didn't want to wear the belt my teacher gave you (and approved gi), you would be shown the door. The rules are the rules, if you can't follow them for whatever reason, leave. No hard feelings, it's just not the right fit for you. We've got a way of doing things, and you'd be told those ways before you joined. If you can follow the rules, welcome aboard; if not, there's other places that have different rules and will gladly welcome you. They'll hopefully welcome you, anyway.

People from different organizations and styles have inquired about joining our dojo and asked if they can wear a belt from their previous/other school. The answer is always no. A guest would be allowed to wear whatever they want, a formal student isn't.

it ao

I can't answer for how nor why others are motivated by belts. I've heard a lot of different answers from a lot of different people. Remember... just because something doesn't make sense to you doesn't mean it doesn't make sense to someone or anyone else.

The physical belt doesn't motivate me. Improvement motivates me. When I get a new shiny belt, it's definitely because I improved. Otherwise I either wouldn't get a new one or I would've skipped the previous one. So if that means I'm still motivated by new belts, then so be it. If there wasn't a belt but the process was exactly the same, it wouldn't change my motivation one bit. Saying "I'm a brown belt" is quicker and easier than saying "I'm a level X student." It's easier for a teacher I'm unfamiliar with to see my belt than it is to ask me what level student I am and have me explain what I know and don't know. So belts make my life easier.

If your hypothetical "Jobo" didn't wear his belt, but hypothetical "JR" wore his...

In the hypothetical small dojo the hypothetical "JR" and "Jobo" train at together, nothing. Once they step out of that hypothetical dojo and into an affiliated one, hypothetical "Jobo" would be given a white belt, be made to practice solely with the white belts, and would only work on white belt syllabus material.

In the real dojo I train at, if you decided you didn't want to wear the belt my teacher gave you (and approved gi), you would be shown the door. The rules are the rules, if you can't follow them for whatever reason, leave. No hard feelings, it's just not the right fit for you. We've got a way of doing things, and you'd be told those ways before you joined. If you can follow the rules, welcome aboard; if not, there's other places that have different rules and will gladly welcome you. They'll hopefully welcome you, anyway.

People from different organizations and styles have inquired about joining our dojo and asked if they can wear a belt from their previous/other school. The answer is always no. A guest would be allowed to wear whatever they want, a formal student isn't.

it sounds like you need external validation of your improvement, your improvement exists if you get a badge and a certificate or not, why do you need others to recognise it in order to feel good about yourself?

my goal is to improve myself physically month on month, part of that is karate training, but there is a far greater amount of push ups, pull ups and running. No one. Gives me a badge of honour if i do a 7min mile, there is no presentation when i do 15 pull ups , or getting an award because I've stuck at it for three years, no one cares, but me. My internal motivation drives me me on. I don't need external validation to motivate me to stick at it or try harder,

belts seem designed for people who don't have internal drive and motivation to improve

 

[webmaster786]

Simply i'm 100% agree with "Rough Rider" They will provide a quick and so much easiest ways for the instructor to know what actually students has already been taught

 

[Gerry Seymour]

belts seem designed for people who don't have internal drive and motivation to improve

It seems that way to you, because you ignore others. I enjoyed receiving every belt I've ever received. I don't recall ever being much motivated by them. I enjoyed the challenge of passing the tests and performing under stress, and the belt ceremonies were always a pleasant, but unnecessary, result. Many students would just as soon receive the belt quietly and never have it mentioned. They wear them because that's what their school does - it doesn't matter so much to them one way or another much of the time. There are points where it does also (not exclusively) fill the purpose of a trophy. For me, BB was that point. I enjoyed earning that rank, and the belt was the symbol of the rank. I don't wear it because of the trophy value. I wear it because I'm used to having that external indicator for others to use. It's "normal" to me, and I rarely think about it.

 

[drop bear]

there no doubt that team work has worked for RB, he is a billionaire, the questions is rather has team work worked for all the 10s of thousands of people who be worked for him over the,decades, who are not billionaires

Not what you said.

 

[drop bear]

it ao

it sounds like you need external validation of your improvement, your improvement exists if you get a badge and a certificate or not, why do you need others to recognise it in order to feel good about yourself?

my goal is to improve myself physically month on month, part of that is karate training, but there is a far greater amount of push ups, pull ups and running. No one. Gives me a badge of honour if i do a 7min mile, there is no presentation when i do 15 pull ups , or getting an award because I've stuck at it for three years, no one cares, but me. My internal motivation drives me me on. I don't need external validation to motivate me to stick at it or try harder,

belts seem designed for people who don't have internal drive and motivation to improve

So who is an example of your method working? Who has not used external motivation to succeed?

 

[JR 137]

it ao

it sounds like you need external validation of your improvement, your improvement exists if you get a badge and a certificate or not, why do you need others to recognise it in order to feel good about yourself?

my goal is to improve myself physically month on month, part of that is karate training, but there is a far greater amount of push ups, pull ups and running. No one. Gives me a badge of honour if i do a 7min mile, there is no presentation when i do 15 pull ups , or getting an award because I've stuck at it for three years, no one cares, but me. My internal motivation drives me me on. I don't need external validation to motivate me to stick at it or try harder,

belts seem designed for people who don't have internal drive and motivation to improve

You seem to suffer from your chronic syndrome of reading certain parts of a post and coming to a conclusion without reading the entire post and writing a completely asinine response.

Case in point which completely contradicts your statement of my needing external validation of my improvement...

"If there wasn't a belt but the process was exactly the same, it wouldn't change my motivation one bit."

Missed that part, huh? It's ok, you only quoted my post twice. Read it again; I promise it's in there.

 

[JR 137]

@jobo
I'll quote myself from another post I made in a different thread. Then again, you'll probably not read it all and come to some stupid conclusion and post absurdity...

The first karate organization I joined was founded by two senior black belts who came from my current organization. The curriculum up to and including shodan is about 95% the same in both. Where they split is at nidan. I went into my current school knowing 95% of the syllabus for the rank I left at. It was a matter of learning 4 kata, 3 of which are pretty simple, and a series of 7 simple choreographed solo drills. I started at white belt and tested for every rank so far. I'm currently at 3rd kyu, and will test for 2nd kyu right around the holidays (barring injury and/or illness). I'll be there 3 years in February.

And I wouldn't want it any other way. I'm far better today than I ever was previously. Testing for shodan under Nakamura will be great, and I look forward to when that happens. Not for the rank and/or belt, but for the test itself. I'm in no hurry though; it'll happen when it happens. If it takes another 3 years, so be it.

Anyone hung up on rank and/or belts would've left.

For clarification, I was a 1st dan in my previous school, and preparing to test for 2nd dan when I went away to grad school. I was scheduled to test for 2nd dan about 6 weeks after the date I had to leave.

 

[jobo]

Richard Branson

 

[jobo]

You seem to suffer from your chronic syndrome of reading certain parts of a post and coming to a conclusion without reading the entire post and writing a completely asinine response.

Case in point which completely contradicts your statement of my needing external validation of my improvement...

"If there wasn't a belt but the process was exactly the same, it wouldn't change my motivation one bit."

Missed that part, huh? It's ok, you only quoted my post twice. Read it again; I promise it's in there.

but you would still get a,certificate, so its still external validation

 

[jobo]

So who is an example of your method working? Who has not used external motivation to succeed?

Richard Branson,

i met him when he was selling records out of a back street shop in manchester

 

[JR 137]

but you would still get a,certificate, so its still external validation

My CI isn't too good about that stuff. I'm missing a few, and got the ones I have a few months afterwards. I think I know where one of them is. I've contemplated asking him not to give them to me anymore because they just get thrown somewhere and if I find them I won't have the heart to throw them out, although I should as all they really do is take up space.

Try again.