Belt Preferance

jobo

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I've never run into much of that problem, though I've heard many who don't like belts/ranks out it forth as an issue with them. To me, it's a lot like someone saying MMA breeds bullies. Those in MMA don't experience much of that.

Most people use their belt/next rank as a guideline of what to focus on, and nothing more. They know what is required to reach the next rank, and that's where they focus effort. If the rank requirements are well-designed, this works in the student's favor. It would be no different (to them) if there was no rank, and they were simply given guidance as to what to focus on.
using your level as a,guide as to what to learn next is the same as wearing you level round your waist.
its just not common in sports or pass times.
i wouldnt turn up at a pool tournnent with all my trophies or if i did people would make fun of me, much like i am here
 

MA_Student

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using your level as a,guide as to what to learn next is the same as wearing you level round your waist.
its just not common in sports or pass times.
i wouldnt turn up at a pool tournnent with all my trophies or if i did people would make fun of me, much like i am here
That is one of the stupidest comments I've ever seen and after reading your stuff that's saying something. Getting belts isn't a competition it's a personal progression. The point of them is to show that the person knows the moves they've been taught and can do them. You seem like someone who may not wear their medals but you'll go round telling everyone you've won them
 

jobo

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Again, you are positing the existence of behavior (an adult strutting around) I've not seen exhibited often. As for your point about how they are tested, that's a problem with testing, not with belts. Take the belt out of the equation, and that issue doesn't go away.
the two are related if the,test is meaningless against any real world situation then the belt is meaningless, so people are,wearing a meaningless badge of,rank, and that is peculiar
 

Gerry Seymour

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using your level as a,guide as to what to learn next is the same as wearing you level round your waist.
its just not common in sports or pass times.
i wouldnt turn up at a pool tournnent with all my trophies or if i did people would make fun of me, much like i am here
You are equating it to a trophy. Think of it more like which league you play in. In pool, I would be slaughtered in the "a" flight. So, I might play in the "c" flight, where I have a chance at competing. That flight is equivalent to a rank. A yellow belt (in my curriculum) wouldn't be as skilled as a brown belt. Think of the yellow belt as the "c" flight. They might post the flights on the wall at an open tournament, so everyone can figure out who to play. And, to make it easier, they might give folks name tags with their flight printed on it.

Now, assume there will also be some instruction at this open tournament. The instructor could look at the flight on my badge and have an idea of my general skill level, so he'd have an idea where to start, and can adjust as he gets to know me better.
 

MA_Student

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I'm not bitter, its a,simple fact that I've not put the required amount of years in to get a black belt. if i do get there, Il hang it in my wardrobe next to all the ties i never,wear. Not go strutting about in it like it means,anything
Sooo...according to you anything below black belt means you're not very good yet you haven't put in enough years to get one...hmm okay
 

jobo

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That is one of the stupidest comments I've ever seen and after reading your stuff that's saying something. Getting belts isn't a competition it's a personal progression. The point of them is to show that the person knows the moves they've been taught and can do them. You seem like someone who may not wear their medals but you'll go round telling everyone you've won them
that's the purpose of the test, the purpose of wearing your test results round your waist hasn't been established
 

Gerry Seymour

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the two are related if the,test is meaningless against any real world situation then the belt is meaningless, so people are,wearing a meaningless badge of,rank, and that is peculiar
If the test is meaningless against any real world situation then the belt is meaningless real world situation. That just means that's not what the belt tells us. It still tells us whatever the test told us (they know a certain kata, or whatever). The belt isn't what doesn't answer the question you want it to - the test is. Change the test, the belt tells you something different. Remove the belt, and the test is unchanged.
 

jobo

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You are equating it to a trophy. Think of it more like which league you play in. In pool, I would be slaughtered in the "a" flight. So, I might play in the "c" flight, where I have a chance at competing. That flight is equivalent to a rank. A yellow belt (in my curriculum) wouldn't be as skilled as a brown belt. Think of the yellow belt as the "c" flight. They might post the flights on the wall at an open tournament, so everyone can figure out who to play. And, to make it easier, they might give folks name tags with their flight printed on it.

Now, assume there will also be some instruction at this open tournament. The instructor could look at the flight on my badge and have an idea of my general skill level, so he'd have an idea where to start, and can adjust as he gets to know me better.
they are a trophy, they are given out at ceremony, with lot of bowing, what else would you call them?
 

MA_Student

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that's the purpose of the test, the purpose of wearing your test results round your waist hasn't been established
Yeah it has been answered. So people know who the higher ranks are so people know what they need to be learning next, so people can see who the beginners are, so people from outside the club can judge people they don't know based on their rank, so people can work with people there own level and get more out of it than working with a beginner. Enough for you yet? ...probably not
 

jobo

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If the test is meaningless against any real world situation then the belt is meaningless real world situation. That just means that's not what the belt tells us. It still tells us whatever the test told us (they know a certain kata, or whatever). The belt isn't what doesn't answer the question you want it to - the test is. Change the test, the belt tells you something different. Remove the belt, and the test is unchanged.
yes that's what it tells the instructor, but all other sports seem to manage with out everyone,wearing a,badge, but people,arnt getting them embellished with embroidery for the benefit of the instructors are they,
 

ballen0351

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Right because grown adults should never wear colored cloth it means nothing.......
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MA_Student

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yes that's what it tells the instructor, but all other sports seem to manage with out everyone,wearing a,badge, but people,arnt getting them embellished with embroidery for the benefit of the instructors are they,
Either you're a troll or just dumb. Martial arts has a huge amounts of techniques and forms. Rank is a way to separate the material and divide it out so people can learn easier. In swimming as you like to talk about everyone learns to swim the same way there's no higher up swimming moves that a beginner can't understand. But in martial arts there's stuff a beginner physically can't learn straight away so they have to build it up slowly. Blimey this is hard work I feel like a teacher explaining to a 5 year what 1+1 is
 

Gerry Seymour

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yes that's what it tells the instructor, but all other sports seem to manage with out everyone,wearing a,badge, but people,arnt getting them embellished with embroidery for the benefit of the instructors are they,
The embroidery part is foreign to me. That's just a thing some folks or associations do, and not relevant below BB, so far as I know.

In most sports, the division is handled before the people end up together. When I coached soccer (football), all students were given a grading. That only mattered when they first entered the team (so the coaches had a starting point), and wasn't relevant to other players during practice. Since there wasn't a constant change of who was in, and who could handle a given "technique" (not really an issue in most sports), a visible reminder wasn't useful.

Point me to another sport that has the same issues as MA (different techniques, 1-1 interaction, etc.), and then we can have a more meaningful discussion about how they handle those issues.
 

Gerry Seymour

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your trying to split the,difference between a,symbol of achievement. And,a trophy of achievement, really?
Nope. I was pointing out that it is a symbol, and that's only one thing it serves as. A trophy, so far as i can think of, serves no other purpose. My BB certificate is like the trophy. I keep it at home, unless someone asks to see it.
 

geezer

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Either you're a troll or just dumb...

Jobo is neither a troll nor dumb. He is an evil clown!

I agree with him about half the time. And sometimes find his comments really funny. And almost always he's goading somebody. Gotta love it.

The comment on this thread that caught my eye was his remark in response to Rough Rider's statement about belts: They provide a quick and easy way for the instructor to know what a student has already been taught, and what he or she needs to learn next.

Jobo
replied: ...so they are just for the benefit of instructors with poor memories?

To be honest, that's good enough for me. I teach Ving Tsun and Escrima, and don't use belts, but we do have testing and ranks. And, even with my small group, that's exactly why I like testing. Otherwise I'd never remember exactly what each student had learned. If you want to cover a curriculum without gaps, a system in which you test for grade can be really helpful. And if you taught a big group, I can see how rank insignias would help too.

Now as to whether your mum would have time to sew them on is another issue. ;)
 

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