A local TKD school owner recently did a presentation/demo at my 12 year-old daughter's middle school. My daughter later commented to me that it was pretty cool, but that even though the man demonstrating was a highly ranked black-belt and a lot younger than I am, he had a big gut and looked way out of shape compared to me. I told her that there was way more to MAs than meets the eye, and that my own teacher is short and fat, and yet he is a master in our system. Moreover, he could kick my behind and not even break a sweat. In fact, some of my fitness training, which includes weights, is not very helpful in my style of Wing Tsun. Nevertheless, since I've started teaching a bit of Escrima again, I've noticed that my younger students are very influenced by appearances. Being old and still looking strong seems to make at least as much of an impression as the technical skills that I think are much more important. How much emphasis do you think fitness should get...especially for instructors. How important is it "to look the part" as well as know your stuff?
Being Fit and Looking the Part...
- Thread starter geezer
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Svart
Yellow Belt
Ive noticed a fair bit of this myself. Cruising YouTube ive often seen (no offence meant) but mainly in the American dojangs, instructors who have large guts and look quite out of shape. My lack of experience and time in the scene would be a big factor, but ive always been curious as to how they seem to be in the shape they are.
I dont doubt they can whoop some butt, but surely if youve been training for so long, thered be some physical aspects to show for it?
Many people are different though.
I dont doubt they can whoop some butt, but surely if youve been training for so long, thered be some physical aspects to show for it?
Many people are different though.
Many Japanese sensei have pot bellies too, altho' they may well not be fat per se.
Why should this be?
In some cases an appearance of fatness is emphasised by the fact that power comes from pushing forward with the hara. Over time this produces a pronounced curve of the lower part of the spine towards the front of the body (I can't recall the term for this, sorry
). Also, it is beneficial to have more weight around the middle than around the shoulders in a number of traditional arts. Indeed, a pot belly was considered the shape to aspire to by the Samurai of old.
Of course, many people are just fat - I'm one of them these days (a surprisingly sudden development after being slim all my life).
In martial arts that are not explicitly athletic, this is not too much of a problem unless you get too heavy for your strength.
As to image? Well, I'm one of 'those people' who happen to think that martial arts should not be taught comercially anyhow, so if a student is put off by a shallow opinion of what a 'fighter' should be it is not a financial consideration. I would be concerned if a student of potential was put off because of such an 'image problem' but if they were truly interested they would know enough already to realise that looking like the classic Hollywood Warrior is not necessary.
Why should this be?
In some cases an appearance of fatness is emphasised by the fact that power comes from pushing forward with the hara. Over time this produces a pronounced curve of the lower part of the spine towards the front of the body (I can't recall the term for this, sorry
). Also, it is beneficial to have more weight around the middle than around the shoulders in a number of traditional arts. Indeed, a pot belly was considered the shape to aspire to by the Samurai of old.Of course, many people are just fat - I'm one of them these days (a surprisingly sudden development after being slim all my life).
In martial arts that are not explicitly athletic, this is not too much of a problem unless you get too heavy for your strength.
As to image? Well, I'm one of 'those people' who happen to think that martial arts should not be taught comercially anyhow, so if a student is put off by a shallow opinion of what a 'fighter' should be it is not a financial consideration. I would be concerned if a student of potential was put off because of such an 'image problem' but if they were truly interested they would know enough already to realise that looking like the classic Hollywood Warrior is not necessary.
Svart
Yellow Belt
Oh I fully understand that MA can be used by all people, no matter how there body be look or work. My curiosity came more from the arts like capoeira and other arts where jumping, and spinning and agility is in great use.
Heheh, more of curiosity than anything.
Heheh, more of curiosity than anything.
Deaf Smith
Master of Arts
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geezer,
What you say is true. I've seen many an 'instructor' that looked out of shape (and usually was) and it reflected on what students thought.
True we can't all look like Van Damne, but the big guts and pale faces do kind of take some of the mystique out of it.
I have found over time it you don't look (and act) the part of whatever you are presenting then most people will look no closer.
Deaf
What you say is true. I've seen many an 'instructor' that looked out of shape (and usually was) and it reflected on what students thought.
True we can't all look like Van Damne, but the big guts and pale faces do kind of take some of the mystique out of it.
I have found over time it you don't look (and act) the part of whatever you are presenting then most people will look no closer.
Deaf
I think being as physically fit as you can possibly be at any given time is very important for not only your personal protection chances if ever attacked but your life in general.
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Hell, I've been fighting my gut most of my life and I'm getting to where it's becoming properly slight, but I will never have the six pack "Washboard" abs of Hollywierd legend.
Not everyone is born with the genes to get the bruce lee look.
Not everyone is born with the genes to get the bruce lee look.
I've known plenty of instructors who were in great shape and looked it - and I've known plenty who weren't. Some were suffering a long-term illness; some a long-term injury (our GM has very bad osteoarthritis in both knees that severely limits his movements); some don't work out enough or eat too much - instructors are people - however, the ones I know who look out of shape are (within the limitations of illness or injury) still extremely capable, even if they don't look it.
How you feel an instructor should look may vary depending on your goals. If you want to be a world competitor, you may feel that your instructor needs to be able to help you reach that goal by example - but there are also plenty of students I know who are on the plump side themselves, who are scared off by someone with a perfect physique, because it seems so unattainable to them... and they are therefore more comfortable with a less buff instructor.
Should you stay in shape for yourself? Yes, as best you can. Should you stay in shape because of what others might think of you? That's their problem, not yours; only you can decide if it's important to you.
How you feel an instructor should look may vary depending on your goals. If you want to be a world competitor, you may feel that your instructor needs to be able to help you reach that goal by example - but there are also plenty of students I know who are on the plump side themselves, who are scared off by someone with a perfect physique, because it seems so unattainable to them... and they are therefore more comfortable with a less buff instructor.
Should you stay in shape for yourself? Yes, as best you can. Should you stay in shape because of what others might think of you? That's their problem, not yours; only you can decide if it's important to you.
FearlessFreep
Senior Master
This confuses me...I can't see Béla Károly doing uneven bar routines...
I will speak for me, I am over wieght and I mean alot. Been training for over forty years it seemed to hit around 42 years old for me mainly because of injuries and medical that has taken it toll on me, with that came some depression that just added to it. Over the last couple of months I have begun trying to get back into shape but I know I will never see 165 again to many steriods for my lungs at times, I am hoping around 190-210 would be good for me. I know these are excuses but along with it is facts. My older Korean GM is around 200 and is onlly 5'7" so he his kinda big but he still can move and hit.
I personally beleive the instructor shold look the part. Some people though have a pre-disposition to being overwieght. I know many instructrors who have old injuries and they don't have pot bellies. To lead you first must have learned how to serve.
Live Long and Prosper
Live Long and Prosper
Injuries and Health issue are two different things. Why does everybody believe you must be thin to teach martial arts or can't have a gut. This I just do not understand, maybe some of you can explain it to me? On the other hand being in shape does not mean being thin it means being in shape. Wrestler are big and they are in shape, footbal players are huge but are in shape, Sumo are even bigger but are in shape. having a gut is just having a gut. Sorry I have seen some pretty heafty big people in Martial Arts that can wipe the floor with most people.
I must disagree....When I attended the week long police academy to obtain my permit to teach in the academys there were snickers about my weight and gray hair...It didn't last too long as I was able to put alot of the younger fit types down with minimal effort I was asked to show some of the " tricks" I picked up over the years , and they hung on every word...No, I no longer look like Bruce Lee or Van Damn...Now its Sammo Hung...
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Svart
Yellow Belt
I was directing more towards people who have not suffered some injury/medical condition or life changing matter. Of course I do not expect someone who has sustained a noticeable amount of damage to their body to be capable of sustaining an intense work out regime, or for their bodies to be able to react to it.
There will always be different situations out there. I think I was more wondering about the instructors who instead or doing some sort of training, will sit down with a beer and chips for 5 hours in front of the telly watching it just cause its on.
Unless you are a judo instructor, in which case it is perfectly acceptable to be portly, I think martial artists owe it to themselves, their students, and the public to be healthy and fit.
Martial arts by their very nature imply health, vitality, and physical fitness. I don't expect older instructors to have the bodies of 20 year olds, but I do expect them to be more in shape than most people their age.
Think about it. You walk into a martial arts school expecting to see healthy and active students. The instructor is in worse shape than you. What would be your reaction? Mine would be go someplace else.
Martial arts by their very nature imply health, vitality, and physical fitness. I don't expect older instructors to have the bodies of 20 year olds, but I do expect them to be more in shape than most people their age.
Think about it. You walk into a martial arts school expecting to see healthy and active students. The instructor is in worse shape than you. What would be your reaction? Mine would be go someplace else.
Why would portliness be acceptable in Judo? I think that may be nothing more than your (and other's) misconception.
Judging people by their appearances is as foolish as judging a book by it's cover. The Black Belts at my school run the gamut from thin to fat, from 16 to 50. The one who used to teach my private lessons looks like a Mexican Santa Claus, judging by looks alone would be a very bad idea.
As much as I'd like to have a body like Bruce Lee, I do find it entertaining to be able as a less than athletic looking big guy, to be able to kick head high, or amaze someone with my speed.
I'd much rather NOT look the part and be able to DO IT, than be, "All hat and no cattle"
Cirdan
Senior Master
One of the first things I learned in the dojo is that there is more than meets the eye. A person that looks old, weak or slow can still be perfectly able to kick your butt. I do believe instructors should keep in shape, but there is also a difference betwen a powerful build and being fat.
If your gut looks like this you might be fat...
http://www.goldendragondojo.com/files/Pepsi/Uncle_Soke___Hayden_In_Front_of_Pepsi_Sign.jpg
If your gut looks like this you might be fat...
http://www.goldendragondojo.com/files/Pepsi/Uncle_Soke___Hayden_In_Front_of_Pepsi_Sign.jpg
Svart
Yellow Belt
Im pretty sure by the looks of him, he'd knock most blokes teeth in down the pub Cirdan.
Hyper_Shadow
Green Belt
I know it's not the case in all places, but in many places I've seen you get very lazy instructors. Englands particularly rife for crap, all the rubbish seems to get washed up or produced here (and not just MA either, but that's another rant entirely!). I've been to some places and looked at some places and the instructors just don't seem to want to put the effort in physically. I know the higher up you go the more esoteric in nature your studies become, but that doesn't mean you can just stop doing the groundwork that got you there. If the root of a tree aren't kept in good shape then the tree isn't going to be strong and will fall for even the most carefree wind.
Image and looking the part is another thing entirely. Personally, I'd rather have a weak but open minded student to begin with than someone who trains for the sole purpose of gaining rank and looking good (belt hunters are such a pet hate of mine).
Meh, all situations are different though and all cases are different so you can't really judge. Best to just get on with your own training and make yourself the best fighter you can.
Image and looking the part is another thing entirely. Personally, I'd rather have a weak but open minded student to begin with than someone who trains for the sole purpose of gaining rank and looking good (belt hunters are such a pet hate of mine).
Meh, all situations are different though and all cases are different so you can't really judge. Best to just get on with your own training and make yourself the best fighter you can.
CaffeineKing
White Belt
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Hi guys,
My guess - in part - is that it takes time and commitment to be *good* as it were. In general, if we keep to the same routine - no matter how strenuous - we we all put on roughly a stone every decade. Thirty years in martial arts - or any other exercise - three stones heavier!
Factor in less time due to family, work etc. and we're all doomed!!
My guess - in part - is that it takes time and commitment to be *good* as it were. In general, if we keep to the same routine - no matter how strenuous - we we all put on roughly a stone every decade. Thirty years in martial arts - or any other exercise - three stones heavier!
Factor in less time due to family, work etc. and we're all doomed!!
