Ask Me Anything Korean Language Related

Discussion in 'Tae-Kwon-Do' started by KangTsai, Sep 2, 2016.

  1. thanson02

    thanson02 Green Belt

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    That is awesome! Thank you for sharing.

    Sent from my XT1096 using Tapatalk
     
  2. TrueJim

    TrueJim Black Belt

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    FYI, here's a less detailed diagram, incorporating Ryan Estrada's clever mnemonics.

    [​IMG]

    At our schools, members of the Leadership Team are required to know how to write their name in Hangul:
    [​IMG]
     
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  3. Rough Rider

    Rough Rider Orange Belt

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    I'm a little confused about how to pronounceㅐ. I'm learning a lot by reading, but pronunciation is tough because I don't know any native speakers. Anyway, my chart gives the example "pan", while TrueJim's chart gives the example "stray." Those are completely different sounds, and I believe "stray" is correct, but I've seen the other example in other places as well (like "hand").

    In another thread, somebody shared a video that demonstrated the proper pronunciation of Taekwondo, and it sounded more like "stray." My instructors, like most Americans, say "tie". So, if "Tae" isn't supposed to sound like "tan" without the "n", why do so many Korean study guides list it like that?
     
  4. TrueJim

    TrueJim Black Belt

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    I'm not an expert, but...

    I like this source for pronunciation help: Hangeul step 3 - Korean Wiki Project


    When discussing vowels in any language, here's something to keep in mind:

    You and I might hear "ay" and "ay" and they'll sound exactly alike to our ears. But to somebody raised in another language, they'll sound like very different "ay's".

    Researchers did this experiment years ago in which infants were given a treat whenever a certain Eskimo (Inuit) "oh" sound was made, but not a treat when a different Eskimo "oh" sound was made. To your ears and mine, these were absolutely identical sounds! (I remember watching the video and thinking -- "But those sound absolutely identical!") But to Eskimos, these were two different "oh's". The infants were being taught to anticipate a treat if they heard one vowel but not the other. As I recall, researchers learned that, by about month 9, infants lose the ability to distinguish and learn new vowel sounds!

    By month 9, your brain has learned all the vowel sounds that its ever going to learn; any vowel sound that's not in that set will be matched by your brain to the nearest-sounding vowel that you have learned.

    To my ear, ㅐ sounds a lot more like "pay" than it does "pan"...but to a Korean it may sound like neither.
     
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  5. Rough Rider

    Rough Rider Orange Belt

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    That is absolutely fascinating, Jim.
     
  6. gpseymour

    gpseymour Grandmaster

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    I'm not familiar with that research, but I do remember research (back in the 1990's, perhaps) that indicated most people cannot learn entirely new phonemes after their brain matures (around age 17-20, for the areas involved). This is why people move to a new country, live there for 30 years, and never lose their heavy accent.
     
  7. TrueJim

    TrueJim Black Belt

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    I wish I could find that video on the Interwebs...the video of the Inuit woman saying "Oh" then "Oh" -- and the infant distinguishing between the sounds, is really amazing. When I was in college, we were shown the video in Anthropology 101 class -- but Google isn't helping me find that video now. Google does point me to references that infants learn their vowels at about month 6, and that the brain trains itself to "lump" slightly different vowel sounds into the same vowel-bucket, but it's not pointing me to anything that tells me when infants lose the ability to learn new vowels.
     
  8. gpseymour

    gpseymour Grandmaster

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    If you happen across that again, I'd love to see it. I really need to go back and dig into some of the developmental research that has happened. I'm probably 20 years behind in most of what I know.
     
  9. Jaeimseu

    Jaeimseu Black Belt

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    To get the American English long 'a' sound, you need two Korean syllables (에 + 이) as in James (제임스). This sometimes creates issues in understanding because words end up with differing numbers of syllables.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  10. KangTsai

    KangTsai 2nd Black Belt

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    Here's an easy way to distinguish. In American, the "a" in "cater" would be ㅔ, whereas the "e" in "chess" would be ㅐ.
     
  11. Rough Rider

    Rough Rider Orange Belt

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    Dang, I thought it was the other way around. I really wish I could find somebody to teach me in person, because learning online is just getting frustrating. If I wanted to learn Spanish of French I could simply enroll in a class at my local Community College, but no such luck for Korean (I checked).:(
     
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  12. WaterGal

    WaterGal Master Black Belt

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    It's more like "teh", I think, than "ta (minus the n)", at least to my ears. I think Americans tend to say it tie-kwondo because that sounds more "natural" in English than teh-kwondo. Kind of like how English speakers say kur-ra-tee instead of kah-rah-teh. I know that there is similar issues the other way, too, I think it's kind of the nature of people borrowing words from other languages. I studied Japanese in high school, and I remember learning such loan words as "konputa" (computer), "supaa" (supermarket), and "apato" (apartment".
     
  13. serietah

    serietah Orange Belt

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    에 and 애 are so close that I have heard they are losing their distinction even to native speakers. I'm fortunate enough to be able to learn from textbooks and native speakers so I was able to ask this question a while back. For *me* to pronounce the difference, 에 is more like the e in "chess" while 애 is more like a long a sound....but sometimes it's a short a sound lol. The vowels are easier than ㄹ for me though. That sound is the main source of my Korean learning headache. I just can't do it right the majority of the time.
     
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  14. KangTsai

    KangTsai 2nd Black Belt

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    Pronounce "lada." The "d" is a ㄹ.
     
  15. Rough Rider

    Rough Rider Orange Belt

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    Wait, what? The "d" wouldn't be a ㄷ? "lada" would be 라라?
     
  16. KangTsai

    KangTsai 2nd Black Belt

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    Phoenically, yes. Notice how your tongue touches the roof of your mouth? That should happen.
     
  17. andyjeffries

    andyjeffries Master of Arts

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    You're the native Korean speaker, but this doesn't sound right to me. When I pronounce the word "lada" there's a tension and a harder exhale on the "d" than the Korean 라라 (almost like you build pressure and release it). And it's not just my pronunciation of 라라 either (which as a non-native Korean speaker may well be incorrect), I was in a Taekwondo shop on Tuesday and had them print one of my students' name 크라라 on to a dobok and different workers read it out loud to me multiple times to ensure it was correct (the guy at the till once, the lady who printed the vinyl and another guy who affixed it to the dobok) and the last two syllables didn't sound like "lada" then, otherwise I'd have questioned whether it was right.
     
  18. KangTsai

    KangTsai 2nd Black Belt

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    Make gun sounds with your mouth. BRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRT to be exact.
     
  19. andyjeffries

    andyjeffries Master of Arts

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    It's a shame it's not easy to record audio on here. I think that would help a lot when it comes to discussing pronunciation. I use KakaoTalk and HelloTalk with friends and language partners and being able to discuss pronunciation and language with audio is MUCH easier! Such a shame...
     

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