Article on Krav Maga

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Talk' started by Ivan, Dec 23, 2020.

  1. Hanzou

    Hanzou Grandmaster

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    Except it isn't only the techniques that are silly, it's the entire concept of needing to learn how to escape a guard in a self defense context. In BJJ, we only learn how to escape Guard for sport purposes. Same goes for MMA where you might come up against a skilled grappler in the Octagon and need to learn how to escape.

    The chances of you getting put into a Guard by a mugger or a violent assailant on the street is zero, so there's NO reason to learn how to escape Guard for self defense.
     
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  2. stanly stud

    stanly stud Blue Belt

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    I think another important point is you need to have some Balls about you. You can train all these fancy techniques for years but in a real fight all Dojo stuff goes out the window. The most savage and aggresive will win. some people are just natural fighters and fast. are martial arts useless? no of course not but you need the mentality to utilize what you´re learning. you need to stand your ground & sometimes take hits & carry on.
     
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  3. Hanzou

    Hanzou Grandmaster

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    Agreed. I mean look at this video;



    You can just tell who has the "balls" and who's going to get their *** kicked. Make it so bad, the MMA guy said he decided to take up the challenge himself because his students are younger and crazier than he is and would have really hurt this dork.
     
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  4. Ivan

    Ivan Purple Belt

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    "The chances of being robbed with a gun in the UK are zero, so there's no reason to learn how to defend yourself at gunpoint"
     
  5. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    yeah you are right.

    He also breaks my #1 rule for defending against a take down. When someone tries to me down. I must first address the grappling attempt and then I can strike. Punching one's way out of a grappling attempt just isn't what I would recommend. Address the Grappling then follow up with striking, but only when the risk from the grappling has been lowered.

    This isn't a reality for me. He also breaks my #1 rule for defending against a take down. When someone tries to me down. I must first address the grappling attempt and then I can strike. They always forget to factor in that forward momentum that comes with a take down like that.
    upload_2020-12-30_11-53-24.png
     
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  6. Ivan

    Ivan Purple Belt

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    The combat sports comment is completely rational. I never claimed the techniques they teach won't work, I claimed that fighters will be too one-dimensional to use their full potential in an environment where there are no rules. That isn't to say that they can't handle themselves, just that the techniques styles have removed such as the backhand in boxing, would give them a better edge.

    As for the lack of sparring, it's not that they won't spar, it's that they can't. You can't spar with a system where 5 in 6 moves include eye gouges, groin kicks, dislocations, and elbows to the teeth. They have drills to replace this such as the 360 defense.

    I am going to completely disregard your groin kick comment...

    I'd tell someone who wants to get fitter and learn some self defense to use boxing myself because it is easier to pick up. But if I was in a street fight, I'd pick KM any day.
     
  7. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    Most TMA schools are like this even the ones who are good at what they do. There are techniques in the school that can really damage people so for safety reasons, it's good to have everyone in that mind set. The problem comes from when teacher apply that to Everything.
     
  8. stanly stud

    stanly stud Blue Belt

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    well there is no real defence against a gun..all the stuff you see is i suppose is a very last resort. If you make yourself a target then you get zapped. now why does the British army still train Bayonet ? because close quarter fighting is important. The japanese trained in a system i believe called Juken jutsu & it is effective. I think for me the best systems are weapon orientated such as escrima. you learn attacks with a knife..etc & defence(mostly with another weapon no dreaming here). no other systems cover all this in my humble opinion.
     
  9. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    I've been at gun point before and it's never like what we seen in the demos.. Most people who have the gun try to stay out of grabbing distance. They understand that they don't want you to grab the weapon and are just as happy to shoot you in the body as they are to shoot you in the head.

    I've video of people fighting over a gun, but even then the set up isn't like what they show in the gun self defense videos. Look at any armed store robbery and you'll clearly see that people just don't threat others with a gun that way. A lot of times there's a counter in between . Police on the other hand have a different scenario that happens often enough. Where someone is trying to take the officer's gun, but very few of those scenarios look like one that is often show cased by martial arts.

    I was able to talk my out of harm when I had a gun held to my head. That was good enough for me. It was like walking a type rope of not appearing to be tough and not being scared as to much of either could encourage or anger.
     
  10. stanly stud

    stanly stud Blue Belt

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    True story.. i remember we was in Canada on exercises in Medicine hat (Batus) a big training area & a Royal scot (scottish infantry Regiment before they amalgimated all the regiments ) took a pistol of a cop & hit him over the head with it. He was still in jail when we took over...haha. but yeah no need to be a hero when a gun is at your head. you survived that´s what counts .
     
  11. Ivan

    Ivan Purple Belt

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    Honestly, I always thought the most stupid thing in action movies was antagonists holding people at gunpoint from less than 1 foot away. Nevertheless, just because you might never need it doesn't mean you shouldn't train in it.
     
  12. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Did they really oppose your techniques with real aggression from the start?
     
  13. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    This is the most overlooked issue which is probably why I really don't like a lot of zen in my martial arts. If the zen helps clear my head so I can commit a horrible act then I'm all for it. If the zen is only to put me at peace then I don't like it.

    Come to think of it, I didn't like this show either. lol
     
    Last edited: Dec 30, 2020
  14. stanly stud

    stanly stud Blue Belt

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    mate i have seen people learning Modern Ju jitsu systems thinking they can use it on the cobbles (on the street) all that will happen is they will get badly hurt or worse. mostly office types or white coller workers i think they say in the US. I honestly despair when i meet these people. The only systems that i like are escrima or a boxing system. I am not saying i am Bruce Lee but i am talking from real life experiences.
     
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  15. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    I wouldn't go that far. You should at least understand the position. But you probably don't really need a guard pass because hitting and standing up is the simplest option.
     
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  16. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    The British did a successful bayonet charge in Afghanistan.
     
  17. Oni_Kadaki

    Oni_Kadaki Green Belt

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    I am a big fan of boxing, for the same reasons you and Kemposhot cited. That being said, you mentioned being taught techniques that were derived from Aikido... One of my first Aikido instructors was retired NYPD. He had started out in Karate, but found the kicks impractical with a gun belt, and concluded that Aikido was more applicable to his job as a police officer. It clearly worked for him, as he stuck with it, and he showed me some of the more practical Aikido he learned on the beat... That was a scary class.

    I will also say that BJJ literally saved my life, as well as that of the friend I was protecting from our attacker (attacker too, for that matter). I personally have NO desire to go to the ground, but the fact of the matter is, it's a good backup plan for if you get tackled, like I did.
     
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  18. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    It works the other way. And this comes back to my comments about drills not really giving the feedback that you want them to sort of.

    So say you train the deadly eye gouge. And someone else trains a jab. But they train the jab live against a bunch of resisting opponents and you stand there and poke holes in an orange or something.

    They will have the advantage in an eye gouge off because they will have the better basic functional tools of hitting people and not getting hit.

    Which is by far better than having perfect technique. (Or at least the perception of perfect technique)

    So what happens is there is a very small area where you have the specialist advantage vs a very big area where they have the general advantage.

    So yes I have caught good boxers with a back fist because they don't expect it. But if they are good boxers they have caught me with everything else.
     
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  19. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    I did the security/Aikido thing.

    It was really bad.

    Basically we took a low percentage option. Trained it in an unsafe way. Then trained that technically poorly. And then taught that to other people.
     
  20. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    And you can see this with almost every eye gouging demonstration where generally every other factor of striking that keeps you safe is done wrong.

    They stand directly in front at this terrible range. Fire out the eye gouge and then do almost nothing else. ( And beating your now pretend incapacitated parter doesn't count as something)

    123
     
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