Article on Krav Maga

Discussion in 'General Martial Arts Talk' started by Ivan, Dec 23, 2020.

  1. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    Kids these days lol. There always some young buck, thinking that people in TMA don't hit hard enough lol.
     
  2. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    The ole Throw the Guy by catching his punching arm.. lol Good luck with that one. The thing about TMA that I don't like is that many school and students always think the attack is a punch. Like literally every technique is almost taught as something that someone does in defense of a punch. For whatever reason, the actually application of some techniques didn't get passed down correctly. Either that or the teacher forgot the application and took a best guess.
     
  3. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    The irony is you might be able to do it if you were super slick at hip throws. But you are not going to get slick at hip throws by setting it up off the punch like that.
     
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  4. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    yeah you would have to be really slick . not sure at which stage one would try to initiate catching the punching arm executing a hip throw. I know which punch comes in at the same angle as shown in the video but, I just don't see how someone would catch it. Usually people set up the big heavy punches buy nailing you with some faster punches. People don't usually start off with the heavy haymaker first.
     
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  5. Ivan

    Ivan Purple Belt

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    That's exactly what Krav Maga allows you to do. You can practice your techniques with 100% intensity because you don't actually aim to knock a partner out. I can throw a punch at you with 100% force, but that doesn't mean I can't pull it right before it hits you - which is exactly how Krav Maga teaches you to experience the fear of having a punch coming at you, and the technique to avoid it, without punching you. You get powerhouse punches thrown at your face in random moments enough times, eventually, you'll get used to it, whether you get hit or not. It's not the punch that causes you to twitch, it's the fast movement and your lack of vision. The punches that hurt most, and scare you the most, are those you don't see coming.
     
  6. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    I have a few things that I don't understand about your comment.
    I've never seen a Krav Maga class done at 100% intensity.
    I've never known anyone who could pull a punch after sending it with 100% intensity. Usually once that punch leaves it can't be pull or redirected by the attacker.
    Powerhouse punches thrown at the face usually land unless you are dialing back the power greatly. For example. I don't think it's physically possible for him to pull punches at the intensity level that he's throwing them. I actually think he would hurt himself physically if he tried to pull his punches after they are sent out at 100%. By the time he thinks about pulling the punch, the punch would have already landed.


    These guys have a nice sparring pace, but they are no where near 100% intensity


    This is low intensity at full power. Even with this, I don't see how they are able to pull punches.


    This is high intensity at light power. And because it's light power, it's not 100% intensity. Someone fighting at this intensity level with full power would be 100% intensity and someone would easily get hurt.
     
  7. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    well yes and no, you can get use to avoiding fast moving objects that wernt actually going to hit you at all as contradictory as this statement soubds, which has its problem, when part of the skill in fighting is knowing which are going to hit you and which are not, and an enciroment where non of them ate going to hit you, is short of treaching you to avoid those that are, im a firm beliver in training with consequences for failure, it speed up the learning process greatly

    however the person who is throwing the pubches that get pulled is not gettibg a great deal out of the exercise, they may as well be punchibg thin air and would certainly be better hittibg a focus pad
     
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  8. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    I don't know anyone who is used to getting hit hard in the face with a power shot. That's usually an indication that you messed up somewhere. Get enough of them and you'll end up taking an unexpected nap. Power strikes that fall on the guard is one thing, getting nailed where there was no defense is not something you should think of as getting used to. Our heads can only take so much blunt force impact and that's not something you can manually control the response to.

    If you get punched really hard, I can guarantee you that it's the power of the punch that will make you nervous and not the speed of it. I've sparred against people who had really fast punches (faster than mine) and the speed didn't bother me because the power wasn't damaging. I've also trained with a partner when working on a "new" technique that discovered.

    The principles and concepts were sound we killed heavy bags with now problem Then the real test came for sparring. He landed the technique and dropped a guy with the body shot. My sparring partner saw what happened and put on protective body gear. He tried to stay away, so my punches weren't that good. I had to reach with the technique which took away lots of my power. After the sparring match he comes up to me and says had he not had the body gear on, I would have probably broken his ribs because he could still fill the punch coming though.

    When I spar with teachers and instructors who are better than me, it's the power that I worry about and not the speed. Maybe it's just me.


    Which is why I don't think there's a way one can actually get used to it.


    Maybe you see see something I don't
     
  9. JowGaWolf

    JowGaWolf Grandmaster

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    I only want my training partner to pull punches if I just flat out don't see it coming.
     
  10. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    well yea, im not sayibg it has no part in training, in learning to pick up fast movement, it has a problem with what should you do about it, you know its not going to hit, why would you do any4hing much ? at some point, sooner rather than later, you want on target punches to avoid, or ,,, ,,,,
     
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  11. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    you first state my addition info has no effect on the validity of my original statement and then that it contradicts it, both of those cant be true and as it nether of them are .

    a heavily potatoe based diet could indeed change the conduct of a fight and possibly the conclusion, for good or bad from your stand point

    diet is one of the many inputs that could have an effect, so i wouldnt dismiss it as irrelevant at the point
     
  12. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    You can't have both.

    Either martial arts, or anything really, has an effect on self defence. Or it doesn't. You can't have both when you feel like it.

    If martial arts has an effect on punching ability. But punching ability does not have an effect on self defence then martial arts has no effect.

    Diet cannot have an effect on self defence because we cannot determine what self defence is.

    So if I am a trained fighter. He might be better trained. If I have a gun. He might have two guns. Or if i can't fight and he can't fight either and is smaller.

    With the entirety of violence to draw from nothing effects the outcome of self defence.

    We are talking pure chance.

    Or martial arts does have an effect. Say it increases punching power which raises your odds of winning a self defense situation and the idea that self defence is so vague as to be undetermined is false.
     
  13. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    it has an effect on self defence, it doesnt nrssecerly change the ultimate outcome, but how and when that outcome comp0es to pass it may very well do.

    but as we have no idea, at this stage who is attacking who with what, anything more specific than that is speculation of the highest order

    and its isnt random change, that would require that all possible outcomes are equally likely and that is not so
     
  14. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    And so it has no effect.
     
  15. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    it has an effect, it very well may effect the outcome, if you end up getting stabbed 5 seconds later that has effected the outcome

    if your stabbed an inch high that effected the out come,

    to many variables, to say any more than it can have an effect
     
  16. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    How does it effect an undeterminable outcome?
     
  17. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    indeterminatly
     
  18. Ivan

    Ivan Purple Belt

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    I never said that. I said that TMA usually only train with repetition, no sparring, and a vehement lack of resistance in their repetition. I experienced this myself in two different martial arts (as I stated in the article) and that resistance was only applied after reaching a black belt. This means that your training means nothing until you reach your black belt and learn to actually apply the techniques you learnt, and black belts are a minimum of two years. That makes TMA very ineffective compared to more modern arts, though their techniques are just as, if not more, valuable.

    For my father, traditional Japanese Jiu-Jitsu is the pinnacle of martial arts, so imagine his disappointment when he learnt that he wouldn't learn how to apply the techniques until he spent at least two years at the classes we attended.

    In contrast, Krav Maga uses combative drills and a philosophy that emphasises application and aggression over technique - which is why it's effective enough to be used by special forces. It prepares you for a lot of situations in a very short amount of time, whereas repetition-only TMAs expect you to stick to them for such a large amount of time, that by the time you've learnt to apply them, you've been mugged twice, stabbed three times, and had your lunch money taken by your bully and his whole family tree.
     
  19. jobo

    jobo Grandmaster

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    thats not all tma, it probebly not most tmas, but as neither you nor i have vistited most tmas, its hard to say
     
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  20. Ivan

    Ivan Purple Belt

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    You're right. Some styles of Kung Fu have sparring, such JowGaWolf's Jow Ga. But it is a recurring theme across many TMAs. Aikido, JJJ, Shorinji Kempo, to name a few, only have randori and repetition.123
     

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