Article on Krav Maga

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

I feel as if I haven't quite got my point across properly. Moreover, I personally think I am able to throw strikes with full speed and little power and I have tried to do so before.

Then you're not using full aggression. Full aggression involves going all out at the person. Which you can't do without contact.

Some of the strikes which the defendes uses in applying the technique cannot be used in training i.e. we weren't able to kick the groin, so we would either kick the inside of the thigh or stop before striking. Regardless, once we were comfortable enough to do so, we would do the same stuff with speed.

I think you didn't express that properly, since IIRC the article stated that there would not be contact. So for instance-eyepokes but stopping short, miming a groin shot, faux-twisting the neck, etc. If that's what you guys do, then that's pretty useless, since you don't know if it would actually land. If you practice a front kick, where you hit the chest or knee (and can adjust the height to the groin if needed), a punch that lands on the chin/upper torso (close to the neck), or the forehead (close to the eyes) or with goggles/groin cup on, that can be useful. Because then you actually know it would land with contact, and getting your strike to land is a lot tougher/requires more practice than figuring out exactly where you want it to land. But if you stop short, you don't know what would have happened (and it also takes away the intensity of the situation, which prepares you less in a different sense for an actual fight).

Lastly, perhaps it is a difference in experiences, but up until now with my classes in traditional styles - it was their way or the highway.

Yup, probably a difference in experiences thing. Unless you come down to NY or I go to the UK we can't really know.

 

[drop bear]

That explains why you have to hit someone 5 or 10 times in the same spot in order to finish them, instead of just once (too much aggression, not enough technique).

Not really. If they are defending themselves and are not a complete dud. Multiple strikes then serve a real purpose even by elite strikers.

 

[stanly stud]

I am a big fan of boxing, for the same reasons you and Kemposhot cited. That being said, you mentioned being taught techniques that were derived from Aikido... One of my first Aikido instructors was retired NYPD. He had started out in Karate, but found the kicks impractical with a gun belt, and concluded that Aikido was more applicable to his job as a police officer. It clearly worked for him, as he stuck with it, and he showed me some of the more practical Aikido he learned on the beat... That was a scary class.

I will also say that BJJ literally saved my life, as well as that of the friend I was protecting from our attacker (attacker too, for that matter). I personally have NO desire to go to the ground, but the fact of the matter is, it's a good backup plan for if you get tackled, like I did.

I have also learned some Aikido, Tendo ryu & Takemusu Aikido. one has short sabaki the other more dynamic round. I know the score & also judo. I served 9 years in the Army & worked in armed security for the Brit army for 7 years. I am not a moron . Trust me if you try these locks such as Nikyo on the street you will lose. Now what most Aikido classes do not really teach is Atemi waza (striking). I honestly have more respect for Judo than aikido as it´s more "Hands on" randori. The worst Aikido is the Aiki Kai it´s just a "Do" a way a philosophy not real. Maybe you need to look at Daitio Ryu which is shorter & harder. still no use for modern day combat. stop dreaming about O sensei & his amazing techniques of "Aiki". Worst student of him was Tohei Sensei !!!

 

[stanly stud]

Daito Ryu

 

[drop bear]

I have also learned some Aikido, Tendo ryu & Takemusu Aikido. one has short sabaki the other more dynamic round. I know the score & also judo. I served 9 years in the Army & worked in armed security for the Brit army for 7 years. I am not a moron . Trust me if you try these locks such as Nikyo on the street you will lose. Now what most Aikido classes do not really teach is Atemi waza (striking). I honestly have more respect for Judo than aikido as it´s more "Hands on" randori. The worst Aikido is the Aiki Kai it´s just a "Do" a way a philosophy not real. Maybe you need to look at Daitio Ryu which is shorter & harder. still no use for modern day combat. stop dreaming about O sensei & his amazing techniques of "Aiki". Worst student of him was Tohei Sensei !!!

You can get wrist locks and arm locks kind of safely against duds from good clinch work. Because if you bend a guy over from say a really good underhook. The arm pops out straight and you can attack it.

But Aikido generally doesn't teach that.

 

[stanly stud]

You can get wrist locks and arm locks kind of safely against duds from good clinch work. Because if you bend a guy over from say a really good underhook. The arm pops out straight and you can attack it.

But Aikido generally doesn't teach that.

Judo arm locks are better. Sraight arm bar against the elbow or shoulder. Wrist locks & throws are very hard to do in a fast fight. there was a guy who did finger locks wally jay i think.

 

[drop bear]

Judo arm locks are better. Sraight arm bar against the elbow or shoulder. Wrist locks & throws are very hard to do in a fast fight. there was a guy who did finger locks wally jay i think.

Yeah. But you want to do locks in a way that doesn't result in you getting punched in the face.


Which standing in front of someone directly in ams reach results in.

In training recently a friend of mine stopped his roll walked over to the coach and showed him his little finger that was at 90 degrees. Coach put it back in and he kept going.

And was just training. Not a serious fight.

You cannot be standing where he is standing in a fight that has striking. One second slip and you are eating shots.

 

[stanly stud]

Yeah. But you want to do locks in a way that doesn't result in you getting punched in the face.


Which standing in front of someone directly in ams reach results in.

In training recently a friend of mine stopped his roll walked over to the coach and showed him his little finger that was at 90 degrees. Coach put it back in and he kept going.

And was just training. Not a serious fight.

You cannot be standing where he is standing in a fight that has striking. One second slip and you are eating shots.

i agree with you but was wanting to show some variations on here..(wally Jay, Daito ryu) hence why i said elbow or shoulder locks are better in a fight. Also i mentioned the atemi waza. are you paying attention?

 

[drop bear]

Judo arm locks are better. Sraight arm bar against the elbow or shoulder. Wrist locks & throws are very hard to do in a fast fight. there was a guy who did finger locks wally jay i think.

Alternatively look at how this guy gets the arm out straight. Away from the body and basically begging to get wrist locked or am locked. And he is not even attacking it. He is going for other things.

Which becomes more important because if the arm lock fails it gives you an option to take their back or take them down in a dominant position.

And it enters through a clinch which is not the worst way to deal with punches.

It even has a blocking system to stop the guy turning in. Which sucks the power out of any striking.

It is still low percentage. But so much better than your average alternative.

 

[drop bear]

i agree with you but was wanting to show some variations on here..(wally Jay, Daito ryu) hence why i said elbow or shoulder locks are better in a fight. Also i mentioned the atemi waza. are you paying attention?

We are pointing at different things. If you get a good entry break the other persons posture and isolate the arm. You can go for all sorts of things. And you can be sort of safe doing it.

After that you can choose to wrist lock of arm lock or whatever.

If you are front on hoping to somehow catch that arm. You risk being flogged.

 

[stanly stud]

Which sucks the power out of any striking.

how much power do you need to poke an eye? I remember an Argyll Sgt asking me what i would do in a fight & i said head butt him which was my thing as a young guy & he said no spit in his eyes.

 

[stanly stud]

We are pointing at different things. If you get a good entry break the other persons posture and isolate the arm. You can go for all sorts of things. And you can be sort of safe doing it.

After that you can choose to wrist lock of arm lock or whatever.

If you are front on hoping to somehow catch that arm. You risk being flogged.

everyone has his or her opinion & it´s good so. I do not disrespect any opinion.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

how much power do you need to poke an eye? I remember an Argyll Sgt asking me what i would do in a fight & i said head butt him which was my thing as a young guy & he said no spit in his eyes.

Not the guy that you're asking, but you need enough power that your poke connects. So if you're lacking in power you're more likely to have your hand get blocked, even slightly, and miss the eye with the poke. If you're lacking in speed (related to power), you're more likely to miss as a result of them dodging. if you're lacking in reach (another aspect of power), you're likely to fall short/having them dip their head out of reach.

The power of the strike itself doesn't matter too much when the eye's involved, it's the power to get the strike.

 

[stanly stud]

Not the guy that you're asking, but you need enough power that your poke connects. So if you're lacking in power you're more likely to have your hand get blocked, even slightly, and miss the eye with the poke. If you're lacking in speed (related to power), you're more likely to miss as a result of them dodging. if you're lacking in reach (another aspect of power), you're likely to fall short/having them dip their head out of reach.

The power of the strike itself doesn't matter too much when the eye's involved, it's the power to get the strike.

yes ..yes a lot of if this & if that .. as to your comment about lacking in reach(related to power in your post)..i guess you never boxed in a ring . Think about the Upper cut.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

yes ..yes a lot of if this & if that .. as to your comment about lacking in reach..i guess you never boxed in a ring . Think about the Upper cut.

It's if this and that for a reason. I'm stating why power is important. If you're lacking power, then X happens. if you're lacking Y part of power, then y happens. If you have power, then you're more likely to land.

And how exactly are you doing an eye poke through an uppercut? Normally that comes from a jab most places I've seen it taught, where reach absolutely is important.

 

[stanly stud]

It's if this and that for a reason. I'm stating why power is important. If you're lacking power, then X happens. if you're lacking Y part of power, then y happens. If you have power, then you're more likely to land.

And how exactly are you doing an eye poke through an uppercut? Normally that comes from a jab most places I've seen it taught, where reach absolutely is important.

a lot of waffle about nothing. do you know what a boxing upper cut is? nothing to do with poking an eye. I was taking about short range fighting & power. you said in your comment range is power & i am telling you that a short upper cut can KO you. I have done it in the ring.

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

a lot of waffle about nothing. do you know what a boxing upper cut is? nothing to do with poking an eye. I was taking about short range fighting & power. you said in your comment range is power & i am telling you that a short upper cut can KO you. I have done it in the ring.

I'm talking specifically about the power involved in a jab. And that range is an aspect of power, not that it is power. But range was probably the wrong word, but what I'm talking about is true for an uppercut too. It's the follow-through; when you throw a jab, you don't aim for it to stop directly at the head. When you throw an uppercut to the chin, you don't aim for it to stop directly at the chin, you push through. In the case of a jab/eye poke this follow through also means that if someone sways back, you've still got a chance to hit them, while you wouldn't if you didn't throw far enough to sway back.

And I really don't care what you say you have/haven't done in the ring. I don't know your record, or the quality of your opponents, but repeating that line isn't really going to impact my comments at all.

 

[stanly stud]

I'm talking specifically about the power involved in a jab. And that range is an aspect of power, not that it is power. But range was probably the wrong word, but what I'm talking about is true for an uppercut too. It's the follow-through; when you throw a jab, you don't aim for it to stop directly at the head. When you throw an uppercut to the chin, you don't aim for it to stop directly at the chin, you push through. In the case of a jab/eye poke this follow through also means that if someone sways back, you've still got a chance to hit them, while you wouldn't if you didn't throw far enough to sway back.

And I really don't care what you say you have/haven't done in the ring. I don't know your record, or the quality of your opponents, but repeating that line isn't really going to impact my comments at all.

sorry but it is important to point out you have never been in a ring as you clearly do not understand what i am saying. it went way over your head or you are just talking nonsence here. You are seriously a Mod on here?

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

sorry but it is important to point out you have never been in a ring as you clearly do not understand what i am saying. it went way over your head or you are just talking nonsence here. You are seriously a Mod on here?

You're right that I haven't been in a ring. I've been in probably about 10 fights, some with martial artists (and 1 with a boxer), and most of my training has been with professional or amateur fighters, but never fought in a ring myself. I may have missed what you were saying so let me try to clarify what I understood.

• You stated/suggested power isn't important for eye pokes.
• Your reasoning for that is that you don't need a lot of power to do damage with an eye poke.
  
• I stated that the power is needed not to do damage but to land it.
• My reasoning is that power helps you get past blocks, is related to speed, and the follow-through (initially said reach but clarified that since reach isn't related to power for every type of punch.
• You stated that the above is not true, as uppercuts don't need reach.
• I clarified that I was talking about follow through, and how that's important in every strike as part of power, and also helps prevent people from dodging.
• You stated I'm talking nonsense/don't understand what you're saying. And I think you're right since this conversation/your argument doesn't really make sense/is nonexistent.

So if you'd like to clarify where the confusion is coming from, go for it.

And to answer your last question, yes I'm a mod on here. That's also not relevant to any of this though.

 

[Hanzou]

"The chances of being robbed with a gun in the UK are zero, so there's no reason to learn how to defend yourself at gunpoint"

Yeah, that's not even in the same realm of comparison here. There ARE gun crimes occurring in the UK.

The chances that you're leaving a bar and some guy runs up and jumps Guard on you is zero. The chances of some mugger walking up to you demanding your wallet, and then grabbing you and pulling into Guard is also zero.