Are steel toe boots useful for self defense? What SD items do you carry?

Discussion in 'General Self Defense' started by kehcorpz, May 2, 2016.

  1. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    As with anything else, it's only useful if you know how to use it well enough. For me, a pen isn't all that useful, but a kubotan would be. A knife would be better, but I can't carry them often enough (as with the kubotan). A cane is better than a kubotan, less so than a knife, and I can literally take it anywhere I want. I'd be better served by a sword, but that's not legal anywhere I know of.
     
  2. kehcorpz

    kehcorpz Blue Belt

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    But what exactly do you do with a kubotan? Do you just stab with it like with a knife?
    Or do you hold it in your fist and then try to hit the attacker in the face cause a gaping wound all across the face?

    A disadvantage of a kubotan with a sharp edge compared to a small flashlight with the same dimensions with a non-sharp edge
    could be that if you're attacked you have restraints cause it's sharp and can do much more damage than a flashlight.

    Another disadvantage of defending with a sharp object is getting in contact with the attacker's blood. I wouldn't want to get in contact
    with any bodily fluids. This in itself is dangerous cause of hiv and other diseases. Then all you have to do is slightly rupture the skin on your
    hand during the defense and then his blood gets into your wound and voila. Nowadays you never know what kind of infectious diseases a person
    has, especially creeps which attack harmless people.
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2016
  3. Dirty Dog

    Dirty Dog MT Senior Moderator Staff Member

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    Has anybody mentioned to you yet that you cannot learn martial arts from the internet. Because you cannot.

    Um... you don't actually know what a kubotan is, do you? Because they don't have sharp edges...

    And you don't think blunt trauma causes bleeding? Real life is not Hollywood.

    Then you best not ever fight. At all. Don't spar, even.

    You don't actually know anything about blood borne pathogens either, clearly.
    There is zero risk of transmission if blood gets on intact skin. That would be none. Zilch. Nada. Bupkiss. A needle stick from a person with HIV carries a 1 in 1000 (or lower, some studies say 1 in 3000) chance of transmission.

    You're also displaying a shocking ignorance of what populations are affected by blood borne pathogens.
     
  4. kehcorpz

    kehcorpz Blue Belt

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    I confused kubotan with self-defense pen. Pens are sharp.

    What do you think about sharp pens? Are they good or bad? They certainly can cause much more damage especially if they arent used
    to press against trigger point but when they're used to stab or hit somebody with the sharp edge.
     
  5. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    There are many ways to use a kubotan. It can be - as you implied - used as a striking weapon. It can also be used to reinforce the fist (like a roll of coins). It can be used to activate pain points, to make throws and grappling locks more painful.

    IMO, the arguments about blood are relevant to nearly any weapon: knives, sticks, guns, etc. I will take the chance, if I'm exchanging nearly certain injury for possible infection.
     
  6. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    I think there's a legal problem with literally anything marketed as a weapon. There are metal pens I'll use, but I won't carry one marketed as a defensive weapon. It's too easy for opposing counsel to paint you as someone who was looking for a fight. If I'm going to deal with that risk, I'm carrying a gun or other powerful weapon. If I'm not going that route, I'll choose something that's a reasonable weapon but isn't marketed as such.

    That's for the US. I'm not sure what the legal situation is elsewhere, but here it's very easy to get sued (and lose a lot of money) even if courts find you criminally innocent.
     
  7. Dirty Dog

    Dirty Dog MT Senior Moderator Staff Member

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    I suppose that wold depend on your definition of "sharp"... personally, I've never seen a sharp pen.
     
  8. kehcorpz

    kehcorpz Blue Belt

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    With tactical pen I mean stuff like this:

    Arrival Tactical Pen Anti skid Hard anodic oxidation Self Defense tool emergency Hot New Arrival-in Self Defense Supplies from Security & Protection on Aliexpress.com | Alibaba Group

    These items are allowed where I live while other items for example the spikey are forbidden!
    https://scontent.cdninstagram.com/t...n.jpg?ig_cache_key=NTY3MDIyODg4OTExODY3OTg3.2

    These decision appear random to me. Why should the spikey be more dangerous than a tactical pen? I'd say that a tactical pen can cause much more damage than this
    spikey thing.


    But now I also wonder if even carrying a legal kubotan or tactical pen is bad cause in case you have to defend yourself it may make you look like someone who's looking for
    trouble and cause of this carrying kubotan/tactical pens. normal people do not use them. the only people who carry them are people which worry about their security which isn't
    forbidden. but it could as well be used against you. then the attacker is suddenly the poor victim and you're the bad guy.
    nowadays you never know what could happen.

    To me it seems like an attacker can attack people and in case he loses the defending person mustnt really do much to him. it's ridicolous somehow.
    this is like wanting to drink milk but not paying for a cow. they want the chance to attack people but if it goes wrong then you mustnt hurt them.

    for example a vile degenerate creep wants attacks a harmless person simply out of fun. he tries to throw punches against the head and kick the legs and stomach
    so it's clear that he really wants to do some real damage.
    now if the person being attacked by this creep could quickly end the fight in a way where nobody gets hurt then is he demanded to do this?
    Why should the creep get out of this without punishment?

    I my opinion if a creep attacks with the intention to cause serious damage then the just punishment would be to do to him what he wanted to do to others.
    This is the only language they understand. If they notice that there is no real punishment and they can attack people and rob people and a few hours later
    they're back on the streets then they have even less respect for the police. in germany it's like this. the police catches creeps which are usually already known
    to the police and then they're brought to the police station and a few hours later they're back on the street again. the creeps are uncivilized and vile but they're
    not entirely dumb. they are able to learn new things and adapt. when they do something criminal and the police catches them and later on releases them and
    the same thing repeats itself then in a very short time they'll feel like they're untouchable and that even the police cant harm them. but the german laws are not
    meant to be strict and to settle things once and for all. judges also suffer from this. they say we need this and that we need better laws so that we can even deal
    with all the criminals but nobody listens to them. it's weird. usually one would think that the political parties should care about blatant defects but they dont.
    it's like you live in a skyscraper and there fire on some floors, other floors are under water and nobody cares.
     
  9. MAfreak

    MAfreak Purple Belt

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    what i wrote earlier about the keys wasn't a joke. it can be a little knife or a that kobudo-weapon (i forgot the name of it) you posted as photo number two.

    [​IMG]

    i trained once with tactical pen and didn't like it very much. joint locks with sticks, in my opinion, are more difficult to do then with bare hands. you can strike someone with the tip to the temple or the neck or whatever but this also could do real pens and keys and carrying them isn't illegal anywere, i guess.
     
  10. kehcorpz

    kehcorpz Blue Belt

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    But when you hold the keys like on pic 2 in the middle then i doubt you can punch hard with them. they'll probably move in the hand.

    what do you think about this here? they're very cheap. but i guess this stuff isnt allowed in germany either.
    i think i read that every item which is meant to be used as a stabbing weapon or which increases punching power is automatically forbidden.

    Security Protection Personal Self Defense Supplies Self defense Stinger Duron Drill Easy Carry Protection Tool Nylon Plastic-in Self Defense Supplies from Security & Protection on Aliexpress.com | Alibaba Group
     
  11. MAfreak

    MAfreak Purple Belt

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    when they move in the hand, they already drilled holes in the body of the attacker.
    not allowed are for example nunchucks (as strangeling weapon) and knuckle dusters, which also was a kobudo weapon in the beginning. you are allowed to own tonfas and such, and also small single-edged jackknifes, where the blade comes out at the side with up to about 6 cm i think. but you aren't allowed to have these things in reach, for example trouserpockets. but you are allowed to carry them in a backpack and such. what a bull****.
     
  12. kehcorpz

    kehcorpz Blue Belt

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    yes these rules are ridiculous.
    some things are generally forbidden, others are not forbidden but also mustnt be carried outside. as if criminals care about these rules.
    the only ones affected by them are normal people.
     
  13. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    In my opinion, using keys like this is more likely to hurt you than them. Especially #2 - you'd better be done after the first contact, because your hand will be a mess.
     
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  14. MAfreak

    MAfreak Purple Belt

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    yeah some say so, and you'd better not try to hit the skull but on the other hand you mustn't even hit full power. i hit heavy bags with it, its no big problem. except of sharp edges of the keys its even useful to have something small in the hand, when fist striking, to protect the fingerbones, they get less compressed then.
     
  15. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    In the hand, sure. Between the fingers, not so much. As for hitting a heavy bag, that's a more controlled environment, and even there it would be easy to hurt your hand if you hit hard enough for it to be useful. If I have to hit softer in order to use the keys, I'm better off just hitting harder without them - with the bonuses that 1) I don't have to arrange the keys, and 2) my hand is available for gripping, too.
     
  16. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    If the attacker uses your weapon against you he is not the 'poor victim'.

    German law allows a person to defend themselves using reasonable force and even deadly force if the situation warrants it as it has what the Americans call a 'stand your ground' law. Reasonable force means you can for example knock them out which is reasonable however kicking them in the head when they are out and on the ground is not.


    If you are attacked you defend yourself, if you are attacked punishing the attacker is not your first thought, that would be defending yourself with as little injury as possible then getting away. You are not required to 'punish' the attacker, you friends and family require you to save yourself.
     
  17. MAfreak

    MAfreak Purple Belt

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    when we talk about life or death situations, i believe, drilling two painful (even if not deep) holes with keys between the attackers ribs and then run away, although if there could be small bloody scratches on my own fingers, would be a good choice. the keys wouldn't amputate your fingers. we can discuss for weeks, everyone thinks to have the ultimate opinion and readers must decide for themselves.
     
  18. gpseymour

    gpseymour MT Moderator Staff Member

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    If they are wearing anything heavier than a thin t-shirt, you are unlikely to leave two holes of more substance than the likely damage your hand. Now he has a pain in his side, and one of your hands is maybe unusable to continue the fight. That's not effective self-defense.
     
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  19. SenseiHitman

    SenseiHitman Orange Belt

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    I own all types of weapons so I can train with them and against them. This includes firearms. We have an old saying in Kempo. " If I will need a weapon my opponent will bring it for me." Another saying we have in Kempo is "Any weapon you do not understand is a weapon that can be used against you." So I own them, train with them, but never carry them. Karma is the preferred weapon of the Kempo master. If my karma fails, then I will rely on the natural weapons of my body located on my hands, feet, knees,shins, elbows, shoulders, hip, skull etc.

    Kempo is a religion that promotes the ideas of; Peace Love and Flower Power. Peace, love and flowers keep us sane. Why are flowers on the list? Flowers have the power to heal us, and keep us healthy. Never underestimate the power of a flower.
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2016
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  20. Don Johnson

    Don Johnson Yellow Belt

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    Not sure if they are low profile enough for you, but either would go nicely with the steel toed boots. Choice would depend on your style and color preference. I like them both. I really like the SD tools built into the red one though. When it comes to SD, I'm more of a proactive guy.
    . crowd control.jpg Iron-Man-4.jpg123
     
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