Are Standing Arm Break Unsportsmanlike in MMA?

Discussion in 'MMA' started by Anarax, Aug 3, 2018.

  1. Anarax

    Anarax 2nd Black Belt

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    I was reviewing some of the unorthodox techniques in MMA and Waki Gatame(the first lock I was taught) caught my eye. Shinya Aoki applied it beautifully in the video below. I of course had to read the YouTube comments and some were saying the break was unsportsmanlike.

    I can see part of their point given it's a break and is done so quickly it doesn't give his opponent enough time to tap. However; the Waki Gatame is a difficult technique to control your opponent with especially in a pro MMA bout, thus it must be done more explosively to be effective. When you opponent is trying to beat you unconscious is the arm-break that inappropriate or unsportsmanlike? Understand I'm referring to MMA bouts not grappling competitions.

    Standing Arm-breaks Yea or Nay? Why or why not?

     
  2. jobo

    jobo Senior Master

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    Yes deliberately breaking your opponents arm is unspOrting in a sporting contest, the guys probably got kids and a mortgage, and bills, stopping him from looking after his family is not sporting
     
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  3. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    If you ever test your MA skill in golden glove boxing in a small red neck Texas town (such as Liberty Hill, Texas), you will feel that everybody there will fight like animal and try to kill you in the ring without mercy.

    To be kind to your enemy is to be cruel to yourself. In the ring (or on the mat), you try to act like a tiger and eat your opponent alive. It's better for you to break your opponent's arm than for your opponent to break your arm.
     
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  4. Headhunter

    Headhunter Senior Master

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    That is absolutely ridiculous. This guy applied a move that can brake an arm instantly. More than likely the other guy wouldn't do w move like that especially since he's a great grappler. This is a sport not a street fight. Stuff like this and punching opponents while they're obviously unconscious is disgraceful in my opinion. This sports dangerous enough without thug moves like that
     
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  5. Headhunter

    Headhunter Senior Master

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    Absolutely in a self defence situation I'd have no issue breaking a guys arm if need be. But in a sport no way. I've had positions in training where the guy wasn't tapping and I knew my submission was tight and he held on being stubborn and I just let go. My egos not so fragile I need to break someone's arm to feel good about myself
     
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  6. Anarax

    Anarax 2nd Black Belt

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    I see your point, but those two scenarios aren't the same thing. Aoki's opponent wasn't neutralized and he was taking punches to the face until he broke his arm. If the opponent is out cold on the canvas and the striker continues beating him he's doing more damage after his opponent is neutralized.
     
  7. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    Well that's a load of bollocks. What 'enemy'? Why would you want to kill someone in a sporting contest? To have such a mindset and ego that makes you think that's okay is shocking.

    Your post however answers a lot of questions I've been wondering about recently.


    If he's doing that the ref should be disqualifying him, simple as that.
     
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  8. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    In the boxing ring, when you barely dodged a punch that's 2 inches away from your head, you knew that if you failed that dodging, you might be on the ground unconscious.

    In the boxing ring, either you knock your opponent down, or your opponent knocks you down. The sooner that you can knock your opponent down, the safer that you will be.

    In the boxing ring, you may not want to kill your opponent. But you do want to knock out your opponent before he can knock you out.

    Since to knock your opponent down/out is part of the sport, comparing to serious head injury, the arm breaking is almost nothing.

    My wife had to go to EM to fix her broken shoulder during one of the "friendly sport" ground game. Was her opponent not friendly to her? She just refused to tap out. That was 100% her fault.
     
    Last edited: Aug 3, 2018
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  9. Tez3

    Tez3 Sr. Grandmaster

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    and you teach your grandmother to suck eggs as well.

    Look, boxing is consensual violence, same as MMA, we know what to expect when we get in the ring/cage, we have a referee who takes the safety of the fighters seriously, we have rules, it's a competition, a game. You play by the game or you are an idiot.
    it's not warfare, it's not an attack, it's a game and that's where the fun lies for the competitors. Physical chess, all this talk about 'killing' etc is just nonsense.

    If you are thinking about what might have happened when you are in the ring then you are very foolish, you keep your mind on what you are doing. Afterwards, when the fight is over you shake hands, go off get showered and changed and meet your opponent in the bar for drinks and craic. You can't do that if you break his arm, why on earth would you do that on purpose, it's bad enough when it happens by accident.
     
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  10. Martial D

    Martial D Senior Master

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    I think that's a dirt bag move in MMA sport fighting. The reasons why have been mentioned here already.

    Great move for non sport fighting though.

    I think it's very important to maintain the distinction here.
     
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  11. pdg

    pdg Senior Master

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    Dodging a punch by 2" is at least 1.5" of wasted movement.

    Unless it's already 2" away from your head, in which case you don't need to dodge it at all.
     
  12. Headhunter

    Headhunter Senior Master

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    Tbh you're just sounding like one of those wannabe tough guys you see on YouTube videos.....an arm break is almost nothing.....um no...if the guys arms broken he can't fight, he can't train, he can't drive, he can't play with his kids, he can't work a normal job so it seriously screws up his life.

    Also that's not how boxing works yeah knock downs and knock outs happen. But there's hundreds of fights where there's no knockdown or ko at all. Yes fighters are trying to win the match but they're not trying to give them brain damage or kill them in the ring. Look at Chris Eubank after he gave his opponent serious brain damage he never fought the same again and wasn't as aggressive and it still affects him now. When his son was fighting and giving his opponent a beating and the ref wasn't stopping it he told his to stop hitting the head as the ref wasn't stopping it so to just go to the body. He didn't want history to repeat itself. I've been around the fight game for years and I've spoken to fights who've either killed or seriously injured their opponents and trust me none of them ever felt good at all about it. A number of them retired from fighting after it, one had a breakdown and another committed suicide because of it. So saying fighters trying to kill each other is frankly dumb and disrespectful
     
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  13. paitingman

    paitingman Blue Belt

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    It's like the debate on the knee kicks right now.

    With sports medicine where it's at today in the world of pro athletes, there is less concern for elbows and knees, but rising concern for head trauma.
    Some say it's a dirty move, but others turn around and say blown knees are just deserts when you're in a game where blunt force trauma to the brain is a typical occurance.

    I'm waiting for more research since I'm still not sure how to call it
     
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  14. paitingman

    paitingman Blue Belt

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    "You're whining about knee kicks when you're trying to kick my brain off??" --things I've heard in the gym
     
  15. Dirty Dog

    Dirty Dog MT Senior Moderator Staff Member

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    Just to play devils advocate...

    The typical time between fights for a pro is PLENTY long enough to heal.
    I trained with a broken hand. I trained the day I was released from the hospital after 18" of gut and a half dozen tumors removed. Same when I had a radical neck dissection. Same with the next abdominal surgery. Every time I've trained in the last 13 years, I've done so with a compression fracture at T6, a couple spinous process fractures, and a couple rib fractures that never healed, thanks to a motorcycle accident.
    If you can't drive with one arm, there's something wrong with you other than the arm... I broke my hand at the dojang, finished the match, reduced the fracture when I took off my gloves, finished the class, then got in my car and drove home. Then I put an ACE wrap and some ice on it and took a nap before I went to work that night.
    If you can't play with your kids because your arm is broken, there's something wrong with you other than the arm.
    I worked just fine with a broken hand. I worked half the shift before I got time to xray it. Yes, the cast made some procedures in the ER difficult, and some things absolutely require two hands. But I worked just fine.

    There's a lot of drama in your statement, but not a lot of fact.

    Note that I am neither condoning nor condemning the technique applied in the OPs video. I'm just injecting (see what I did there?) a dose of reality.
     
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  16. pdg

    pdg Senior Master

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    I'd have to change cars to drive safely with one arm, otherwise it'd mean taking my hand off the steering wheel to change gear...

    Never owned a slush box.
     
  17. Anarax

    Anarax 2nd Black Belt

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    I don't condone the the extra shots post KO, but sometimes the ref isn't able to get between the fighters in time.
     
  18. Anarax

    Anarax 2nd Black Belt

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    That was the angle I was coming from. Full contact shots(punches, elbows, kicks, knees) to the head or body can result in concussions, ruptured internal organs or even broken bones. However, arm breaks are considered too extreme?
     
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  19. DanT

    DanT Black Belt

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    If I break an arm it's unsportsmanlike, but if I break a nose or shatter a jaw or cause a spleen to rupture it's a good punch?
     
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  20. Steve

    Steve Mostly Harmless

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    I don’t think a legal technique is unsportsmanlike, and the easy way to avoid a broken arm is to defend it correctly or submit.
     
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