Alan Orr Fighter

[drop bear]

There are many ways to test effectiveness that are not MMA competitions. In your particular case, since your experiece of VT is zero, your opinion about the effectiveness of VT is not all that important.

If you are interested in finding out more about VT then do so, if not then don't. It is ok with me either way.

Yeah but they are not anywhere near as good as testing in mma competitions.

Or probably striking competition would be better because that leans towards your skill set.

My experience of a lot of things is zero. I cant tap dance. I don't understand fashion and I don't do VT.

But I am not going to trust that they are effective fighting systems untill I can see them being effective at fighting.

And I don't think that is all that big an ask.

 

[guy b]

I am not going to trust that they are effective fighting systems untill I can see them being effective at fighting.

That is ok, but don't see what it has to do with me.

I don't think that is all that big an ask.

It is your life. Who are you asking?

 

[Juany118]

Yeah but they are not anywhere near as good as testing in mma competitions.

Or probably striking competition would be better because that leans towards your skill set.

My experience of a lot of things is zero. I cant tap dance. I don't understand fashion and I don't do VT.

But I am not going to trust that they are effective fighting systems untill I can see them being effective at fighting.

And I don't think that is all that big an ask.

As to your first point I would say "yes and no.". Let me explain.

It is indeed a controlled environment. Not simply the rules but, in theory, the fighters facing off are relatively similar in skill, size and the like.

At the same time some of these factors also work against it. The controlled environment removes the environmental factors that make a difference. Are you or the person you fighting going to want to go to a "ground game" in an alley with broken glass? There are no weight classes, people don't where the same clothes, repeated head strikes can be less common due to the lack of gloves etc.

This isn't to say there is no need for pressure testing. There is indeed but imo people participating in Lei Tai are engaged in just as effective pressure testing as MMA.

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[KPM]

I can't remember criticising your videos KPM? Can you provide a link please and I will apologise for anything that has caused unecessary offence

Aw! Mr. Nice Guy now? We saw how long you could keep that up last time! Please find a WSLVT-specific forum.

 

[dudewingchun]

As to your first point I would say "yes and no.". Let me explain.

It is indeed a controlled environment. Not simply the rules but, in theory, the fighters facing off are relatively similar in skill, size and the like.

At the same time some of these factors also work against it. The controlled environment removes the environmental factors that make a difference. Are you or the person you fighting going to want to go to a "ground game" in an alley with broken glass? There are no weight classes, people don't where the same clothes, repeated head strikes can be less common due to the lack of gloves etc.

This isn't to say there is no need for pressure testing. There is indeed but imo people participating in Lei Tai are engaged in just as effective pressure testing as MMA.

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Yea but someone who has experience in competition will keep their wits about them much better then someone who has never done any hard sparring or real fighting in a competition. If you aren't used to performing under pressure how can you be confident in your ability to defend yourself at all?

Also just because the competition is approx same weight, you still train with big people and all sorts of body types before the fight. Im always getting stuck on my back with a big heavy guy in side control during bjj rolling but i have that feeling, experience of what it's like so I wouldn't freak out as much if It happened in a real situation.

 

[Juany118]

Yea but someone who has experience in competition will keep their wits about them much better then someone who has never done any hard sparring or real fighting in a competition. If you aren't used to performing under pressure how can you be confident in your ability to defend yourself at all?

Also just because the competition is approx same weight, you still train with big people and all sorts of body types before the fight. Im always getting stuck on my back with a big heavy guy in side control during bjj rolling but i have that feeling, experience of what it's like so I wouldn't freak out as much if It happened in a real situation.

That's why I said you need pressure testing. I was only saying MMA is not the only, or best form, of pressure testing.

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[drop bear]

As to your first point I would say "yes and no.". Let me explain.

It is indeed a controlled environment. Not simply the rules but, in theory, the fighters facing off are relatively similar in skill, size and the like.

At the same time some of these factors also work against it. The controlled environment removes the environmental factors that make a difference. Are you or the person you fighting going to want to go to a "ground game" in an alley with broken glass? There are no weight classes, people don't where the same clothes, repeated head strikes can be less common due to the lack of gloves etc.

This isn't to say there is no need for pressure testing. There is indeed but imo people participating in Lei Tai are engaged in just as effective pressure testing as MMA.

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I am not super keen to fight a guy bare knuckle on broken glass to test a theory though.

I could fight a guy in a cage and just try to stay standing. That is honestly not that big an ask. I could even fight with limited head punches. Or go against a larger or smaller oponent.

The rule set changes. But the basic concept doesn't. Which is that pressure test. Which is that observable and repeatable idea.

Now sure if you have a different pressure test. Like the lei tai. That is also valid.

And the variable would be the rule set and the quality of the oponant.

 

[drop bear]

That's why I said you need pressure testing. I was only saying MMA is not the only, or best form, of pressure testing.

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When a person makes that statement
I feel they do need to be specific with the alternative. And why it is equivalent.

You cant just say mma is unrealistic if you are doing larp drills for example.

 

[Hanzou]

Doesn't matter. The elbows didn't win the fight. Avoiding getting smashed and getting position to thow any elbow you want won the fight.

I'm sure he didn't learn that from Wing Chun either.

 

[Hanzou]

That's why I said you need pressure testing. I was only saying MMA is not the only, or best form, of pressure testing.

I would love to hear a superior alternative.

Heck, even Bjj guys go to MMA gyms to pressure test (at least the Bjj guys I know). It's a good and (relatively) safe way to see how you handle yourself against a well-rounded fighter capable of turning your face into hamburger. The only other option I can think of is street fighting, which isn't safe, and in most cases illegal.

 

[Juany118]

I would love to hear a superior alternative.

Heck, even Bjj guys go to MMA gyms to pressure test (at least the Bjj guys I know). It's a good and (relatively) safe way to see how you handle yourself against a well-rounded fighter capable of turning your face into hamburger. The only other option I can think of is street fighting, which isn't safe, and in most cases illegal.

I already mentioned it. Lei Tai and things like MUSU (both full contact TMA competitions). Are they as common? No MMA "pressure testing" is more common and I have consistently said that it is lacking in many TMA schools. However the pressure testing in training and then the competitions themselves do actually exist.

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[LFJ]

I can't remember criticising your videos KPM? Can you provide a link please and I will apologise for anything that has caused unecessary offence

Same here, @KPM

I don't remember seeing any videos of you training or competing.

You had videos of hip thrusting B.O.B. and punching him from YJKYM.

Is that what you're calling "training videos"?

 

[guy b]

Aw! Mr. Nice Guy now?

Were you unable to find an example?

 

[KPM]

Really. You two need find another forum. A WSLVT-specific forum. I've run out of patience with your antics. Don't blame me if you both have "selective memory." And just as soon as you provide "training" video of yourself, then you have room to comment on what others might call "training" video. And I've posted more than just that one video.

 

[wingchun100]

If I train in something that you don't, and you don't believe it will work...I don't understand what harm it does to you. It might do harm to ME, if it really is ineffective and I go out to a bar or somewhere and get my head beat in. But I really don't understand why this forum turns into a "your style sucks" fest so much. There is a simple solution: if you don't like Wing Chun (or if you DO but you are from a different lineage and think MY lineage sucks), don't practice it!!!

 

[KPM]

^^^^ This forum typically only turns into a "your style sucks" fest when a certain 2 people get involved. Ok, maybe 3.

 

[guy b]

Really. You two need find another forum. A WSLVT-specific forum. I've run out of patience with your antics. Don't blame me if you both have "selective memory." And just as soon as you provide "training" video of yourself, then you have room to comment on what others might call "training" video. And I've posted more than just that one video.

I'm not interested in criticising your video clips KPM. Mostly they contain ideas that don't correspond to the system I practice. But if you want to complain that I bullied you about a video you posted you need to show where it happened, otherwise it just looks as if you are making it up.

 

[guy b]

If I train in something that you don't, and you don't believe it will work...I don't understand what harm it does to you. It might do harm to ME, if it really is ineffective and I go out to a bar or somewhere and get my head beat in. But I really don't understand why this forum turns into a "your style sucks" fest so much. There is a simple solution: if you don't like Wing Chun (or if you DO but you are from a different lineage and think MY lineage sucks), don't practice it!!!

I agree