Alan Orr Fighter

[guy b]

Do you tthink the little idea of VT is widely applicable to different systems?

 

[Nobody Important]

Do you tthink the little idea of VT is widely applicable to different systems?

Only to an extent, unless the system has a similar methodology. For example using Wing Chun to refine Chang Quan or Muay Boran probably wouldn't work very well. Using Wing Chun to refine White Crane or Karate would yield more favorable results but still have levels of confliction, if only minor ones. However, using Wing Chun to refine loose methods like boxing or MMA that don't have a unified method of approach could yield very good results. But doing so doesn't necessarily make those "arts" Wing Chun. The whole idea of refinement is optimization, with that comes changes, changes that can affect the core of an art. Doing so often results in hybridization or something completely new, as such is the case with the emergence of MMA. Alan Orr is simply using Wing Chun to achieve this within his MMA. I could see similar results by using Taijiquan or Xingyi. The question is, is it really Wing Chun or Wing Chun inspired?

 

[drop bear]

Do you tthink the little idea of VT is widely applicable to different systems?

Vt without supplemental concepts would get trashed in a mma fight though. Its ideas are just too restricted.

That is why wing chun is progressing as a martial art. Because it can move outside its own concepts.

 

[guy b]

Vt without supplemental concepts would get trashed in a mma fight though. Its ideas are just too restricted.

That is why wing chun is progressing as a martial art. Because it can move outside its own concepts.

 

[dudewingchun]

All the striking the Alans teaches is Wing Chun. But I guess not all of Alans guys are pure wc guys in the first place. His fighter Josh was already an MMA fighter before he met Alan im pretty sure.

 

[Transk53]

Vt without supplemental concepts would get trashed in a mma fight though. Its ideas are just too restricted.

That is why wing chun is progressing as a martial art. Because it can move outside its own concepts.

Unless it was WSLVT it would seem.

 

[guy b]

Unless it was WSLVT it would seem.

The reason for my confusion at drop bear's post is that it just doesn't follow from the post he quoted. There is no logical connection between what he read and what he said

 

[drop bear]

The reason for my confusion at drop bear's post is that it just doesn't follow from the post he quoted. There is no logical connection between what he read and what he said

Vt as you describe it can't be changed. You can't adapt the concepts to other styles or change the concepts to suit new conditions. You either use it all ot use none of it. So it cant work in MMA as there are extra conditions placed on the system. You go into a fight with straight VT or WT or anything and you will get trashed.

There are just too many variables.

Obviously you can change WT to suit the extra conditions of fighting that occur in MMA. You can use some of it and not use other parts of it.

That is why Alan Orrs guys are sucessfull. and VT is not.

 

[Hanzou]

I've seen those exact same elbows thrown by numerous fighters in MMA.

Wing Chun elbows? Don't think so.

 

[guy b]

So it cant work in MMA as there are extra conditions placed on the system.

VT can work in MMA, you merely need to add what it lacks, i.e. grappling

You go into a fight with straight VT or WT or anything and you will get trashed

Difficult to see how you would arrive at this conclusion given that you don't have any idea what VT consists of. I can only assume you are trolling again.

Obviously you can change WT to suit the extra conditions of fighting that occur in MMA. You can use some of it and not use other parts of it.

I don't think Alan Orr does WT. Alan Orr nowadays tends to use people who are already MMA fighters. It is pretty debateable if there is anything other than standard MMA striking there.

That is why Alan Orrs guys are sucessfull. and VT is not.

Potentially the silliest argument I have read on here for a while.

 

[Transk53]

VT can work in MMA, you merely need to add what it lacks.

You do realise that MMA is sport do you not? Wing Chun isn't.

 

[dudewingchun]

VT can work in MMA, you merely need to add what it lacks, i.e. grappling



Difficult to see how you would arrive at this conclusion given that you don't have any idea what VT consists of. I can only assume you are trolling again.



I don't think Alan Orr does WT. Alan Orr nowadays tends to use people who are already MMA fighters. It is pretty debateable if there is anything other than standard MMA striking there.



Potentially the silliest argument I have read on here for a while.

When I start competing It will be as someone from a pure wc base. He doesn't use anyone , its just not everyone wants to do MMA competitions, some people just like working out after work or enjoy learning a martial art.

 

[Transk53]

When I start competing It will be as someone from a pure wc base. He doesn't use anyone , its just not everyone wants to do MMA competitions, some people just like working out after work or enjoy learning a martial art.

Well for someone like Guy B that is ready espouse the virtues of VT, adding grappling seems quite the contradiction of said views

 

[guy b]

Well for someone like Guy B that is ready espouse the virtues of VT, adding grappling seems quite the contradiction of said views

I am a BJJ purple belt. I recommend adding grappling to VT above in post #30

 

[Transk53]

I am a BJJ purple belt. I recommend adding grappling to VT above in post #30

Right, so then it is not VT then. Just going on you're typical posting history. You didn't recommend anything, just pointed something out for MMA.

 

[guy b]

Right, so then it is not VT then. Just going on you're typical posting history. You didn't recommend anything, just pointed something out for MMA.

If you want to fight in MMA using VT then I recommend you add grappling, as I said here:

VT can work in MMA, you merely need to add what it lacks, i.e. grappling

I'm not sure what you are arguing about here..?

 

[Transk53]

If you want to fight in MMA using VT then I recommend you add grappling, as I said here:



I'm not sure what you are arguing about here..?

Not arguing about anything. No one would use VT per se in MMA, different discipline. As DB said, would get creamed. For someone so fanatical obout VT, once again you're answer just does not add up. For the record, you did not recommend anything in post 30, just paraphrased others

 

[drop bear]

I've seen those exact same elbows thrown by numerous fighters in MMA.

Wing Chun elbows? Don't think so.

Doesn't matter. The elbows didn't win the fight. Avoiding getting smashed and getting position to thow any elbow you want won the fight.

 

[drop bear]

VT can work in MMA, you merely need to add what it lacks, i.e. grappling

And striking.

 

[drop bear]

I don't think Alan Orr does WT. Alan Orr nowadays tends to use people who are already MMA fighters. It is pretty debateable if there is anything other than standard MMA striking there.

Mma striking is a pretty big concept though. But yeah you are going to see less of the traditional concepts as you expand your arsenal.

And need to be grounded in a lot of different concepts or pretty slick at your own system to dominate in that environment.

So you could be a wrestler or submissions guy with garbage hands but as soon as you get that takedown the fight goes in your favor.

You could be a striker and have no real ground skills but can bash people and so be a fight ending expert there. Mark hunt for example.

But if the best you can do is hang with the other guy. Then you had better be well rounded.

Where does VT really dominate?