Aikido: Confronting a Crisis

[drop bear]

I think most people were always looking for functionality.

Even yoga provides functionality.

 

[Taiji Rebel]

I think most people were always looking for functionality.

Even yoga provides functionality.

Yes, functionality has been a buzz-word in the fitness industry in recent years

 

[drop bear]

Yes, functionality has been a buzz-word in the fitness industry in recent years

Different meaning though. Functional fitness is supposed to indicate that is fit to a task.

I am taking Functional as in it does basically anything at all.

I mean if we looked at yoga. We could probably find real evidence to support it does kind of what it claims.

Probably. I never checked.

 

[Taiji Rebel]

Different meaning though. Functional fitness is supposed to indicate that is fit to a task.

I am taking Functional as in it does basically anything at all.

Can you expand on your understanding of the word functional and how you apply it to the martial arts?

 

[drop bear]

Can you expand on your understanding of the word functional and how you apply it to the martial arts?

Functional. As in it makes claims and then lives up to those claims by providing evidence.

So as an example yoga claims.

According to the National Institutes of Health, scientific evidence shows that yoga supports stress management, mental health, mindfulness, healthy eating, weight loss and quality sleep.

 

[Taiji Rebel]

Functional. As in it makes claims and then lives up to those claims by providing evidence.

What claims? What evidence?

Can you give us some functional examples to help understand your viewpoint 🙏

 

[Taiji Rebel]

Functional. As in it makes claims and then lives up to those claims by providing evidence.

So as an example yoga claims.

According to the National Institutes of Health, scientific evidence shows that yoga supports stress management, mental health, mindfulness, healthy eating, weight loss and quality sleep.

Yoga is not a martial art though. We are talking about aikido and the supposed crisis it is facing. In a previous post you said you remember a time when aikido was seen as functional - what are your thoughts now?

 

[drop bear]

What claims? What evidence?

Can you give us some functional examples to help understand your viewpoint 🙏

Ok.

Say a gym claims to be able to use their martial arts effectively. A MMA gym for example mught suggest they have a team of coaches that can do MMA good.

And they could provide evidence of winning competitions. Or training students to win competitions.

We could use that to determine how functional that particular system is. Depending on their performance.

 

[drop bear]

Or a claim could be made that martial arts helps with mental health. And say could go find reserch on martial arts treatment of depression or PTSD.

 

[Taiji Rebel]

Ok.

Say a gym claims to be able to use their martial arts effectively. A MMA gym for example mught suggest they have a team of coaches that can do MMA good.

And they could provide evidence of winning competitions. Or training students to win competitions.

We could use that to determine how functional that particular system is. Depending on their performance.

Okay!

These are hypothetical examples. Can you give me some functional examples from your own martial art experiences?

What does being functional actually mean to you?

Evidence is obviously important to you. So what kind of evidence do you require in your practice?

And why is that evidence so important?

 

[drop bear]

Okay!

These are hypothetical examples. Can you give me some functional examples from your own martial art experiences?

What does being functional actually mean to you?

Evidence is obviously important to you. So what kind of evidence do you require in your practice?

And why is that evidence so important?

Functional to me means I can out box, out kick and out wrestle pretty much everyone who walks in to that gym.

With the training I constantly dominate people with no training.

As Jo rogan put it. If I wanted to kill them I could and they couldn't stop me.

Now the people I train with have varying abilities to do the same to me.

And it is consistent and repetitive. So after a while. My ability to physically dominate those new people diminishes. And my ability to resist those who can dominate me increases.

That evidence is important because that is why I spend money at the gym in the first place.

 

[Taiji Rebel]

Functional to me means I can out box, out kick and out wrestle pretty much everyone who walks in to that gym.

With the training I constantly dominate people with no training.

As Jo rogan put it. If I wanted to kill them I could and they couldn't stop me.

Now the people I train with have varying abilities to do the same to me.

And it is consistent and repetitive. So after a while. My ability to physically dominate those new people diminishes. And my ability to resist those who can dominate me increases.

That evidence is important because that is why I spend money at the gym in the first place.

Thank you for your responses. I can see winning is important to you.

Aikido is a non-competitive martial art with varying branches. The aikidoka of the world will all have different functional aims. Now, the real issue with using a word like functional, is it is widely open to interpretation - it can mean different things to different people.

In a previous post you mentioned remembering when aikido was considered functional - saying that was around ten years ago.

What are your thoughts on aikido now?

 

[Monkey Turned Wolf]

Thank you for your responses. I can see winning is important to you.

Aikido is a non-competitive martial art with varying branches. The aikidoka of the world will all have different functional aims. Now, the real issue with using a word like functional, is it is widely open to interpretation - it can mean different things to different people.

In a previous post you mentioned remembering when aikido was considered functional - saying that was around ten years ago.

What are your thoughts on aikido now?

The simple question is, can it do what it claims to do. For drop bear, that's being able to beat non-trained people with certainty. As he mentioned, to someone else, it might be to help with ptsd, anxiety, or anger management. To be functional, it has to be able to accomplish the claim.

I'm not saying Aikido is or isn't functional, or even know what it claims to do to begin with, as I do not know nearly enough on Aikido to judge that. But it's not a difficult concept.

 

[Taiji Rebel]

The simple question is, can it do what it claims to do. For drop bear, that's being able to beat non-trained people with certainty. As he mentioned, to someone else, it might be to help with ptsd, anxiety, or anger management. To be functional, it has to be able to accomplish the claim.

I'm not saying Aikido is or isn't functional, or even know what it claims to do to begin with, as I do not know nearly enough on Aikido to judge that. But it's not a difficult concept.

Yes, this is true. I was asking Drop Bear because he spoke of a time when he remembered aikido as functional. The difficulty was we have no idea of what function he was referring to - hence my questions on his understanding of the word and how it applies to his martial arts - further to this I was enquiring as to his thoughts on the function of aikido now. If we do not ask for clarification, then how do we understand what it is we are actually discussing?

 

[Flying Crane]

Well, the MMA mentality is growing in popularity. Competition and the need to test everything are commonplace nowadays. The internet has given all kinds of keyboard-warriors the opportunity to jump online and talk trash with ease. There are also an abundance of YouTube videos with so-called 'experts' sharing their experiences with an invested interest in influencing the thoughts of the masses. There is a possibility that popularity will win the day. Attention spans are diminishing, and the need for instant gratification is growing.

When I started out, you just went to the nearest club and if you enjoyed the training you stayed. They were simpler times back then. Information was available, but there was not an overload of it. The martial arts boom of the 70s turned into the action-flicks of the 80s (remember the Ninja-craze ) and nowadays people are looking for functionality.

Just a few more thoughts on the topic!

I guess I don’t worry about it. As I said it may hold something of a niche position but what’s the problem with that? I believe there will always be a subset of the population who maintains an interest in the non-competitive combat methods. Competition that becomes popular with the masses gets a lot of attention and becomes big business. That gains a lot in marketing and draws a crowd. That can be good for growth but bad in other ways when the growth happens too fast and quality cannot be maintained. My point simply being that something being popular doesn’t always mean it is for the best.

Honestly, I have always found myself doing what was relatively unknown outside of our little group. I was doing American (Tracy lineage) kenpo in an area where it was almost exclusively Tae Kwon do and karate. Then I was training capoeira when most seasoned martial artists had never yet even heard of it. Now I train Tibetan white crane kung fu, and there are probably at most a couple hands-full of active groups in the entire North America. By comparison, aikido is commonplace. I have always appreciated that obscurity. I felt like I found some hidden gems and I was glad to be different from the rest.

 

[Xue Sheng]

I guess I don’t worry about it. As I said it may hold something of a niche position but what’s the problem with that? I believe there will always be a subset of the population who maintains an interest in the non-competitive combat methods. Competition that becomes popular with the masses gets a lot of attention and becomes big business. That gains a lot in marketing and draws a crowd. That can be good for growth but bad in other ways when the growth happens too fast and quality cannot be maintained. My point simply being that something being popular doesn’t always mean it is for the best.

Honestly, I have always found myself doing what was relatively unknown outside of our little group. I was doing American (Tracy lineage) kenpo in an area where it was almost exclusively Tae Kwon do and karate. Then I was training capoeira when most seasoned martial artists had never yet even heard of it. Now I train Tibetan white crane kung fu, and there are probably at most a couple hands-full of active groups in the entire North America. By comparison, aikido is commonplace. I have always appreciated that obscurity. I felt like I found some hidden gems and I was glad to be different from the rest.

FYI, when youngest's Aikido Sempai (now a Sensei) gets back from Japan in a year, I may see if my knees can take Aikido when he reopens his dojo.

And THAT is when Aikido will REALLY be confronting a crisis...may take the entire class to get me off the floor

 

[O'Malley]

I guess I don’t worry about it. As I said it may hold something of a niche position but what’s the problem with that? I believe there will always be a subset of the population who maintains an interest in the non-competitive combat methods. Competition that becomes popular with the masses gets a lot of attention and becomes big business. That gains a lot in marketing and draws a crowd. That can be good for growth but bad in other ways when the growth happens too fast and quality cannot be maintained. My point simply being that something being popular doesn’t always mean it is for the best.

Honestly, I have always found myself doing what was relatively unknown outside of our little group. I was doing American (Tracy lineage) kenpo in an area where it was almost exclusively Tae Kwon do and karate. Then I was training capoeira when most seasoned martial artists had never yet even heard of it. Now I train Tibetan white crane kung fu, and there are probably at most a couple hands-full of active groups in the entire North America. By comparison, aikido is commonplace. I have always appreciated that obscurity. I felt like I found some hidden gems and I was glad to be different from the rest.

That's fun until the dojo closes because of a lack of members.

 

[Taiji Rebel]

I guess I don’t worry about it. As I said it may hold something of a niche position but what’s the problem with that? I believe there will always be a subset of the population who maintains an interest in the non-competitive combat methods. Competition that becomes popular with the masses gets a lot of attention and becomes big business. That gains a lot in marketing and draws a crowd. That can be good for growth but bad in other ways when the growth happens too fast and quality cannot be maintained. My point simply being that something being popular doesn’t always mean it is for the best.

Honestly, I have always found myself doing what was relatively unknown outside of our little group. I was doing American (Tracy lineage) kenpo in an area where it was almost exclusively Tae Kwon do and karate. Then I was training capoeira when most seasoned martial artists had never yet even heard of it. Now I train Tibetan white crane kung fu, and there are probably at most a couple hands-full of active groups in the entire North America. By comparison, aikido is commonplace. I have always appreciated that obscurity. I felt like I found some hidden gems and I was glad to be different from the rest.

Yeah, we are in the same boat. It is not something I worry about either. The article caught my eye, I gave it a read and noticed the statistics on the popularity of martials arts. They just got me thinking about martial arts in general. Martial arts have never really been majorly popular in the places I have lived and trained over the years. The clubs often attracted a small group of individuals who were dedicated to the training. My favorite practices are the backyard sessions which came about from attending the smaller niche clubs. At the end of the day, styles and names went out of the window - we just trained, experimented and had fun

 

[drop bear]

Thank you for your responses. I can see winning is important to you.

Aikido is a non-competitive martial art with varying branches. The aikidoka of the world will all have different functional aims. Now, the real issue with using a word like functional, is it is widely open to interpretation - it can mean different things to different people.

In a previous post you mentioned remembering when aikido was considered functional - saying that was around ten years ago.

What are your thoughts on aikido now?

Ok. So what is the point of Aikido?

 

[Taiji Rebel]

Ok. So what is the point of Aikido?

Aikido is the way of harmony