Add-on TKD Hoshinsul and Hapkido

[dancingalone]

Kum,

Enough trolling from you.

 

[Kumbajah]

That is a legitimate question not a troll.

 

[jks9199]

ATTENTION ALL USERS

Please keep the discussion polite, respectful and on topic.

jks9199
Sr. Moderator

 

[Kumbajah]

Seriously, you seem custom tailored to his needs, dan ranking in a similar art plus Aikido knowledge of throws and locks - why as a friend, wouldn't you teach him if that's exactly what he's looking for. Just a little extra knowledge to pass along to his students. You seem confident in your ability to do so per your post on front kick and kote gaeshi.

 

[terryl965]

Folks, I don't believe that the topic is what has or has not been discussed before. I'm certain it's not taking pot shots at other people, no matter how obliquely done. So maybe we can try to stay on topic, and avoid the personal attacks, OK?

Anybody got any advice for how a TKD instructor can successfully add or increase the self defense content of his or her program?

Well for me it was easy since I was a Okinawa karate guy first, but I did find that adding Combat Hapkido was a great choice it landed in a way that has increase my understanding of joint locks and such. I have also added alot of ground work over the last two years such as Judo and wrestling. I for one believe TKD has a solid base for S.D. principle but the problem alot of guys find out is they really never looked for it in the beginning of there journey so they have gaps inside there armour. One thing for sure with Combat Hapkido it is a thing that can be added on with seminars and video support and also it seems there is alot of people out there that have that mand set inside TKD and others arts.

One problem I see is being able to get conset feedback when we need it, that is why evrybody should be able to get one on one from a qualify instructor to the finer points of the art.

 

[terryl965]

That is a legitimate question not a troll.

Well if you are seriously asking legitimate question, than please put yourself in the other person shoe for one minute and see how it sounds from there.

 

[Kumbajah]

I did, that's why I rephrased it. If he possess the skills his friend is seeking out why isn't he providing them. Why look to Hapkido?

 

[dancingalone]

This answer is for others on MT who might legitimately wonder:

Friendship and professionalism seldom mix well. I do not teach friends.

 

[Kumbajah]

I find your answer a bit suspect. ( you seem to find my motives suspect - so I don't feel too bad about it

Your friend seems to just wants a few tricks, not become your student or anyone's student for that matter. (There is Hapkido instruction in his area. If he wanted that he could get it - See the Google link ) A couple of months would probably get him where he wants to go.

You providing the knowledge would be an ideal situation. He would be under an instructors tutelage, there is no rank being transfered. He's not taking up a new art. Just a few tricks to pass along. You can show him how you've integrated your Aikido into your Karate. I honestly don't see the problem. It wouldn't be a professional situation. Just a couple of buddies sharing what they know. I've done that on many occasions with friends that study other arts.

UNLESS... what he is seeking to do is to purchase legitimacy. " The above name is certified by Joe Blow's House of Hoshinsool to teach self defense" A DVD and maybe a couple of seminars a "poof" - a new class and source of income. Thereby defrauding his students who would probably assume that his grappling knowledge would be on par with his TKD after all he's teaching them at the same school. Not acknowledging that his students probably could get better instruction at a few outside seminars but he's got a certificate, so... it's cool.

Or ... this is a high school smoke screen tactic "I have this friend who..."

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Dancing already made it plain that teaching his friend himself is not going to happen. This does not seem suspect because there is nothing to suspect.

I teach only one friend outside of KMA inc.and he is a student only (as opposed to a teacher in another system elsewhere). I have numerous other friends whom I do not teach, but whom I do gather information for. I could teach each of them kumdo. But by the time I am finished with my day job, teaching duties at KMA, and other commitments, I have this thing called a family that I like to spend time with. Not to mention that I need alone time and time to attend to my own personal practice.

There are only but so many hours in the day. Friend or not, if you do not have the time, you do not have the time.

I also know of many people who will not engage in their profession with friends, and none of them martial arts. My good friend who teaches jazz and classical guitar did not pony up free lessons when I started talking about taking up guitar again and asking him about what instructional book he'd recommend. Nor did I expect him to. When he is not teaching, he has a girlfriend and a life.

As to why he and I do not trade kumdo lessons for guitar lessons, well, as cool as that would be, and he has expressed interest in learning the sword, our schedules simply make doing so impossible.

Sometimes, it is logistically impossible to do. Sometimes, it is just best to keep one's friendships separate from one's craft.

Daniel

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

I did, that's why I rephrased it. If he possess the skills his friend is seeking out why isn't he providing them. Why look to Hapkido?

It seems very common for taekwondo schools to add on material from hapkido. This is not surprising. It is another KMA, so it maintains a Korean cultural element. As hapkido is also a striking art,the perception is that its grappling/throwing techniques segue well with taekwondo.

Also, there is a myriad of material available in either DVD format or online study that also has seminars to go along with it.

While the dvd/online + seminars is not the route that I would personally take, I do not dismiss it out of hand.

Daniel

 

[Daniel Sullivan]

Daniel, I'm sure he's looking for something less than apprenticing himself to a hapkido master, but at the same time he's surely looking for something cohesive that builds upon levels of understanding so there is material for both beginners and those who might have a bit more experience.

I am not personally familiar with any of these groups, but they may fit the bill:

http://www.martialartsresource.com/Hoshinsool-online/hkdvideo.htm
http://www.worldhapkido.com/
http://www.kuksul.com/

I had mentioned this one before:
http://www.aimaa.com/

And of course, the ever popular:
http://www.dsihq.com/#combat-hapkido--the-ichf-4c5083

The last one, CHKD, is the only one that I have have heard anything first hand about that I know for fact has supporting seminars. The other three may, but I have heard nothing about any of them.

AIMAA I have no first hand feedback on, but the GM is Hee Il Cho.

Daniel

 

[dortiz]

Teaching works best in the environment we know how to teach in. Change that and it just gets hard.
Can I have a friend come to regular class? Yes.
Would I want to teach my friend casually, no. Too much work surfing outside of the normal boundries that create the rules and manner to teach in.
Not saying it cant be done, just saying I would not want to either.

 

[Kumbajah]

Dancing already made it plain that teaching his friend himself is not going to happen. This does not seem suspect because there is nothing to suspect.

I teach only one friend outside of KMA inc.and he is a student only (as opposed to a teacher in another system elsewhere). I have numerous other friends whom I do not teach, but whom I do gather information for. I could teach each of them kumdo. But by the time I am finished with my day job, teaching duties at KMA, and other commitments, I have this thing called a family that I like to spend time with. Not to mention that I need alone time and time to attend to my own personal practice.

There are only but so many hours in the day. Friend or not, if you do not have the time, you do not have the time.

I also know of many people who will not engage in their profession with friends, and none of them martial arts. My good friend who teaches jazz and classical guitar did not pony up free lessons when I started talking about taking up guitar again and asking him about what instructional book he'd recommend. Nor did I expect him to. When he is not teaching, he has a girlfriend and a life.

As to why he and I do not trade kumdo lessons for guitar lessons, well, as cool as that would be, and he has expressed interest in learning the sword, our schedules simply make doing so impossible.

Sometimes, it is logistically impossible to do. Sometimes, it is just best to keep one's friendships separate from one's craft.

Daniel

Danny,

Thanks for playing mother hen but unless you are Dancingalone you are speculating as much as I may be. If he has an answer, he can answer.

 

[goingd]

I can see how Kumbaja is coming off rudely to some people, but it's not like his points can't be seen. This forum is not for politicians, so a bluntly honest response - even if it may not seem like a perfectly direct answer - should be expected.

If you ask someone a question face to face, and they answer you with a question for the sake of gathering more information, do you respond by saying, "Quit bogging down my conversation and go start a different discussion?"

Dancingalone, you pointed out yourself that people may have negative opinions about the idea. It may not have the kind of negativity you were expecting, but you left yourself and the thread open to it anyway. Threads like this often get locked and they don't need to be. Kumbaja might not have sounded so polite, but from an outside perspective you seemed to be blowing him off, and that's not exactly courtesy.

Now, I'm happy to start a thread specific to "add on self defense," because Lord knows people can't control themselves on both sides.

No disrespect intended. Just an honest answer for an honest situation.

 

[dancingalone]

I can see how Kumbaja is coming off rudely to some people, but it's not like his points can't be seen. This forum is not for politicians, so a bluntly honest response - even if it may not seem like a perfectly direct answer - should be expected.

If you ask someone a question face to face, and they answer you with a question for the sake of gathering more information, do you respond by saying, "Quit bogging down my conversation and go start a different discussion?"

He is breaking the rules of this forum in not following the topic of the original post. I suggested opening a new thread which would have been the proper way to branch off discussion. Message boards are not in person conversations, obviously. They have different interactions, so I don't see a relevance to comparing the two. The rules of the forum trump all. Ask Bob.

Dancingalone, you pointed out yourself that people may have negative opinions about the idea. It may not have the kind of negativity you were expecting, but you left yourself and the thread open to it anyway. Threads like this often get locked and they don't need to be. Kumbaja might not have sounded so polite, but from an outside perspective you seemed to be blowing him off, and that's not exactly courtesy.

Did you read the beginning of the thread? I have short shrift for uncourteous people who can't be troubled to follow the rules we all signed up for on this forum, even when politely asked to do so. I also have little interest to engage the same kind of people in conversation when it is obvious they're just playing around and trying to irritate others rather than adding to the conversation.

Now, I'm happy to start a thread specific to "add on self defense," because Lord knows people can't control themselves on both sides.

No disrespect intended. Just an honest answer for an honest situation.

Good. Let's see how long your thread lasts.

 

[Kumbajah]

I just gave an answer that you didn't like - It was still "on point". I was addressing the name of the thread - "Add-on TKD Hoshinsul and Hapkido"

I hold the opinion that it makes for craptastic MAs and is a method of fraud and devalues MAs as a whole. I am not comfortable contributing to the deliberate defrauding of MA students. It is a disingenuous business practice and disingenuous practice of MAs. To say nothing against it would have been contributing to it.

 

[dancingalone]

If you ask someone a question face to face, and they answer you with a question for the sake of gathering more information, do you respond by saying, "Quit bogging down my conversation and go start a different discussion?"

As a further point, when the moderators are giving warnings that the topic should be adhered to, it's obvious that a rule is being broken.

 

[Kumbajah]

I would try and dissuade your friend from going down that dark path and seek out a Hapkido instructor. He may find something he really enjoys. Who knows - he may become an Hapkido instructor himself.

 

[dancingalone]

I am not personally familiar with any of these groups, but they may fit the bill:
http://www.worldhapkido.com/
http://www.kuksul.com/Daniel

Daniel, I suggested my friend buy all of these resources as part of his due diligence in investigating his training options via dvd/and or seminars. As they come in, I'll probably post some notes on their usefulness from our perspective (mine will surely differ some from his) on the off chance that it may be helpful to someone else on MT in the future.

Thanks for the suggestions.