Accuracy vs Speed

Discussion in 'General Weapons Discussion' started by PhotonGuy, Jan 14, 2015.

  1. PhotonGuy

    PhotonGuy Senior Master

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    Some people here have said that in shooting accuracy is the most important factor. In the classes I've taken we've been taught that accuracy is important but you also need speed. The third factor is power which depends in the weapon and ammo you're using. Now, in terms of speed and accuracy when it comes to hitting the target, what I've been taught is you want the shots on your target to be roughly far enough apart so that you can cover them with your hand but not any further. If your shots are further than that you want to slow down and take your time with your shots to improve your accuracy. If your shots are really close together, if they're right on top of each other, than you want to speed up and sacrifice some accuracy in order to shoot faster. All the accuracy in the world won't be that good if your opponent shoots you first.
     
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  2. Dirty Dog

    Dirty Dog MT Senior Moderator Staff Member

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    Let's be accurate here. Forensics, and actually studying injuries says that accuracy is the most important factor. All anybody here has done (or needs to do) is point out this fact.

    People are taught to use multiple shots to make up for poor accuracy. If you're accurate enough, then one shot is all you need. Most people are incapable of that degree of accuracy for various reasons.

    Only if you're talking handguns vs rifles. It's been quite conclusively shown that so far as handguns go, the caliber is irrelevant. And ammo is only a factor if you're too stupid to use a good modern defensive ammo.

    None of this is anything you haven't heard before. Why do you insist on rehashing the same questions over and over and over in multiple threads?
     
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  3. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    If you throw a fake jab at your opponent's face, since you know that 99% of the time, your opponent will either dodge it or block it, your accuracy and power won't be important there. Speed is the only thing you need at that moment.
     
  4. Dirty Dog

    Dirty Dog MT Senior Moderator Staff Member

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    There is no such thing as a "fake jab" when you're shooting...
     
  5. Touch Of Death

    Touch Of Death Sr. Grandmaster

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    If he sees it coming, it was fake and slow. :)
     
  6. Kung Fu Wang

    Kung Fu Wang Grandmaster

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    Sorry! My fault! Didn't notice this thread belong to "The Firing Range (Firearms). Just ignore what I have just said.
     
  7. Touch Of Death

    Touch Of Death Sr. Grandmaster

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    Anyways, there are about seven types of speed: Mental, Physical, perceptual, etc,, and they all play a role n the over-all thing we call speed. :)
     
  8. PhotonGuy

    PhotonGuy Senior Master

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    And you wont get in that one shot if you get shot first.

    I wasn't asking any questions I was pointing out what I had been taught.
     
  9. jks9199

    jks9199 Administrator Staff Member

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    And you won't get that shot off, no matter how fast you can shoot, if you're shot first. All the gun skills in the world are useless if you don't perceive the danger first, and react to it. (You might look into a book called Left of Bang, or the website of the CP Journal.) Once the shooting starts -- if you're talking handguns, not RPGs -- accuracy matters a lot more in stopping than speed. One effective round on target will do a whole lot more than an emptied magazine that's hitting targets that'll have little effect.

    Once again -- I suspect that you're repeating what you heard, not necessarily the lesson that was intended to be taught.
     
  10. Dirty Dog

    Dirty Dog MT Senior Moderator Staff Member

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    So here's the scenario... you and I face off in a good old fashioned gunfight. DRAW!
    I take 0.1 or even 0.2 seconds longer than you to get off that first shot. I plant it right between the 4th and 5th ribs, just to the left of the sternum.
    You spray and pray, and of the 6 or 8 rounds you fire, one hits me in the deltoid.
    Who wins?

    I suspect you didn't actually learn the lesson that was being taught.
     
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  11. PhotonGuy

    PhotonGuy Senior Master

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    If my shot to the deltoid hits first would you still be able to hit me between the 4th and 5th ribs? Being hit in the shoulder can really ruin your accuracy.

    What I've been taught at the multiple shooting classes I've taken is that you want your shots to be roughly a handspan apart in distance, that should be adequate accuracy. If you disagree with that you can argue with FrontSight.
     
  12. PhotonGuy

    PhotonGuy Senior Master

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    How about this, lets say you're accurate enough that you can place your shots within a handspan and you're really fast. The perpetrator is accurate enough to place all his shots within the bullseye one right on top of the other but to do so he has to take a few extra seconds to concentrate. Who would win?
     
  13. Dirty Dog

    Dirty Dog MT Senior Moderator Staff Member

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    Spoken like someone who has never dealt with someone who has a superficial GSW.
     
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  14. Argus

    Argus Black Belt

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    As a general rule, whether we're talking about martial arts or defense shooting, you should strive to be efficient and effective; not "fast." If you chase speed in your training, you'll be neither fast nor effective.

    Handguns are notoriously difficult to shoot, and lacking in stopping power regardless of caliber. Couple that with the fact that accuracy plummets in high-stress situations, and you'll be lucky if you land any of your shots if you're not making a conscious, ingrained, trained effort to be accurate and deliver well-placed rounds. Nothing short of those one or two well-placed rounds will incapacitate your opponent and ensure your safety. If your efforts are elsewhere, you might as well be flailing your arms around -- or better yet, simply running in the other direction and taking a reasonable bet that your assailant is as inaccurate as you strive to be.
     
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  15. Touch Of Death

    Touch Of Death Sr. Grandmaster

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    I was about to post some very accurate quick draw vids, but I will just say that much of what we think of as speed is perceptual. It looks fast but it is actually a series of well trained habits. Plus hours and hours of shooting, of course. :)
     
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  16. Argus

    Argus Black Belt

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    Yep -- exactly. People who are fast are fast because they train to be efficient, rather than quick. What's the old saying? Fast is slow; slow is smooth; smooth is fast.
     
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  17. Tgace

    Tgace Grandmaster

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    If you can place 3 rounds touching in 30 seconds... You need to speed up. If you hit a limb with one out of 3 shoots in 1 second...you need to slow down.

    I know I know...we all heard the old saw that "smooth is fast". Yes.

    However that doesn't mean what most people think it means. I can be smooth AND SLOW. You need to shoot as fast as you " smoothly " can.

    Professional shooters use shot timers for a reason. You need to balance speed and accuracy with a smooth presentation/gun handling.
     
  18. jks9199

    jks9199 Administrator Staff Member

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    Who shoots first? Doesn't matter how fast the second person shoots if they're already dead.

    Hint: that's why I pointed out sources about staying AHEAD of the shot. Do it right, and there's a damn good chance you won't have to shoot at all... unless you're in a profession like the military or law enforcement.

    You're looking at the wrong issues. I don't think I can explain it any plainer.
     
  19. PhotonGuy

    PhotonGuy Senior Master

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    What's been taught in my classes is that you need to balance speed with accuracy. If you were to put your hand on the bullseye you would want all your shots to land within the area covered by your hand, that's the accuracy you need. If any of your shots are falling outside that area you want to slow down and improve your accuracy. If your shots are right on top of each other you want to speed up a bit but not so fast that your shots land outside the area that your hand would cover. Another words, you want to be as fast as you can be while still keeping your shots within an area roughly the size of a hand. So obviously if you're shooting Center of Mass COM and you hit the shoulder you're shooting too fast and you need to slow down and have better accuracy. You need to balance speed and accuracy. Power also does play a role when you consider factors such as if the perpetrator is wearing body armor, if he's on drugs, and/or if he's particularly determined. As far as accuracy plummeting in a high-stress situation, what they teach is that generally in a high-stress situation your shots will be about twice as far apart as they are in a non high-stress situation, so that is partially why they emphasize being able to land all your shots within a hand's area.
     
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  20. Touch Of Death

    Touch Of Death Sr. Grandmaster

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    I would just move in, so that one of us can't miss. :)123
     

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