Chris It should be allowed for others to see and let them make up their minds aout the Genbukan. I am only presenting things that I find odd or things I always questioned. Alot of answers I recieve from Genbukan teachers seems to put Tanemura on a pedestal and make up excuses and such then rather question certain things. Here is something interesting on Wang Shu Jin: http://www.kempojutsu.net/page6/page11/page15/page15.html Interesting notes are : There are actually quite alot of 4th generation disciple of Wang:Kent Howard,Christopher Kasey just to name two. Li Zi Ming also has many generation disciple and I do not see them using the term Denjin as a reference to their title. Concerning the title of Denjin I emailed Mr. Black who Li Zi Ming appointed as President of the U.S. branch if anyone else was given title Denjin.