To what value do you give the term honorary.
Sean
A question and a response that puzzled me
- Thread starter terryl965
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Sean
GM KANG Suh Jong and GM UHM Woon Kyu. GM Uhm was first I believe. And as far as I can tell, no one promoted GM Lee to 10th Dan. The highest rank that I believe he received was a Shotokan 4th Dan, which he got prior to returning to Korea in 1944. Also, the 10th Dan that GM Lee awarded were not Kukkiwon 10th Dan, but his own dan certificate which he signed.
The only two people who were awarded Kukkiwon 10th Dan when they were alive was Dr. Un Yong Kim, and IOC Past President Juan Antonio Samaranch. The rest of the Kukkiwon 10th Dan were awarded their 10th Dan after they passed away. I used to know all the names of the Kukkiwon 10th Dan, but I forget now.
If it weren't for Mr. Samaranch, Taekwondo wouldn't be in the Olympic Games. During the IOC vote back in 1994, Taekwondo I believe failed to receive enough votes to become a full medal sport. At that point, Mr. Samaranch stood and stated "Taekwondo is going to be an Olympic sport, anyone here oppose?, and no one raised their hand or said anything. There was another vote, and Taekwondo became an Olympic sport.
Besides Dr. Kim himself, Mr. Samaranch did more for Taekwondo than any other single person out there. He deserves whatever highest award that we have, and then some.
dancingalone
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Do you know if that 4th dan was achieved under the 5 dan system? Gichin Funakoshi only held a 5th dan during his lifetime I believe.
Can you site your source on the 10th Dan promotion, please. I want to be able to point to a source beyond "a guy on the internet." Thanks.
It was. GM Lee said that he had achieved the highest dan available at the time, actually from his main teacher FUNAKOSHI Yoshitaka Sensei, which was 4th Dan. GM Lee credits Yoshitaka Sensei as his main influence, not the father. The father used to teach in the day, which is when Song Moo Kwan founder GM RO Byung Jick used to train, but GM Lee practiced at night with the son, who had a full time day job and taught the night classes. GM Lee said that he trained continuously for over ten years at the Shotokan before he returned to Korea is January 1944.
GM LEE Won Kuk told me in one of our many conversations. He might have promoted more people, but that is the two people he specifically mentioned. He promoted a whole bunch of people to 9th Dan, mainly Korean born practitioners.
So basically, for getting TKD into the olympics, he gets a tenth dan. Was he a ninth dan prior to that? Did he hold any grades at all in the art? I suppose that it it is an honorary degree, that it really doesn't make much difference, but still.
Aside from getting taekwondo into the olympics, what did Mr. Samaranch do for TKD that was more than any other single person out there?
Daniel
bluewaveschool
2nd Black Belt
He didn't do anything for the art of TKD, just for the sport.
Okay, for the sport. Was he a competitor? A coach? Or did he just get TKD into the olympics as a medaled sport inspite the fact that it didn't have the votes?
Daniel
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OP
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Dabiel he was nevr either just the head guy that got it into the Olympics, he played a big role in doing so
Thanks, Terry.
While getting taekwondo into the olympics as a medaled sport is a noteworthy accomplishment, to say that besides Dr. Kim, he has done more for taekwondo than any other single individual is a huge stretch.
Daniel
OP
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I totally agree
He almost single handedly at the crucial moment placed Taekwondo in the Olympic Games as a full medal sport, which has been the most important goal for Taekwondo since Dr. Un Yong Kim's arrival in 1971. In doing so, he has helped to inspire millions of practitioners all over the world to realize their potential.
But irrespective of whether you recognize or respect what President Samaranch, I will say that he did not seek out or ask for that Kukkiwon 10th Dan. Maybe he has it framed and up on his wall somewhere, but chances are very good that it isn't, that he doesn't even think about it, anymore than I think about all the certificates of appreciation or letters of acknowlegement that I get when I donate to a charity.
Ok, then in your opinion, who did more than President Samaranch? Because again, that isn't my opinion, it is Dr. Kim's opinion as well as the opinion of the Taekwondo pioneers. Again, your disagreement isn't with me, it is with them. I'm just the messenger.
Oh, I don't know, probably anyone who has ever taken the time to learn the art and to transmit it to others.
Daniel
RobinTKD
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Are we talking who did more for Taekwondo as a whole, encompassing all factions of the art? Or who did more for Taekwondo as a sport? There's 2 different answers there. The reason i say it cheapens it is most people who have trained their entire life will hardly get past 6th dan, irrespective of skill and knowledge, and if i was at that level watching some European who's probably never kicked higher than his waist his entire life becomes some sort of TKD god, i'd be pretty p***ed.
Never said that I didn't respect him or that he sought out the honor. Again, it is an honorary degree, so it kind of makes no difference in the grand scheme of things.
You stated that he did more than any individual beside Dr. Kim for taekwondo, which I feel is a stretch.
Daniel
