A baton is ineffective

Discussion in 'General Weapons Discussion' started by jaime_lion, Aug 21, 2019.

  1. jaime_lion

    jaime_lion Orange Belt

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    Here is a video of me hitting my leg with a baton 3 times. I hit my leg 3 times making another video right before this one but I did not like how that turned out. This is why I feel batons are ineffective. They are only good for training. If I did this same thing with a knife I would be in serious trouble.

    Anyways enjoy.

    Kung fu leg hit.mp4
     
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  2. kempodisciple

    kempodisciple MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Those strikes don't look particularly powerful. Tough to tell from the angle, but it looks like you're (probably unconsciously) stopping the strike right at the end to lessen it.

    Also there are better spots to aim for then the meaty part of your calves. The head, shoulder, knee, underside of knee, foot, chin, all would make more sense and be more effective.
     
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  3. jaime_lion

    jaime_lion Orange Belt

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    Might not be as powerful as my first hits. Like I said I redid this video. I will need to find someone willing to hit me and do a video of that.

    While I agree those spots would be more effective I do not agree that they are as effective as allot of people think. Also they are smaller spots and thus harder to hit and a person would be guarding those spots and such.

    Thanks for the input.
     
  4. kempodisciple

    kempodisciple MT Moderator Staff Member

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    Yeah, someone else hitting you normally works better. I know I've had a similar thing during conditioning-the body just doesn't want to hurt itself all that much.

    As for the other spots being harder to hit-with training, not really. I can fairly easily hit someones shoulder blade in sparring, when they don't have a weapon (or if they do, if there's a significant skill gap). I've also found the legs to be the easiest area to aim accurately at, since most people aren't expecting you to strike there, and it's pretty simple to see/predict how people will react to it. The tricky part is making sure you don't get knocked in the head while going for their knee.
     
  5. Rat

    Rat Black Belt

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    They generally work, you don't really get to ask for what weapons you have on hand sometimes or can afford.

    They should work pretty well if you thwack someone across the head a couple of times.

    I got a video of someone discussing some baton things:

    His main point is, where you would be justified in whacking someone over the head with it a pistol or something like that would be better for lethal force and it doesnt really work that well as a compliance thing. Or something like that, its a very quick memory gloss over on it, also ignore the sort of clickbaity thumbnail. :p
     
  6. jaime_lion

    jaime_lion Orange Belt

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    I already saw that video a while ago. Around the time it was uploaded.
     
  7. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Sr. Grandmaster

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    If I hit you with one of my sticks, you won’t get up. One shot, all I would need.
     
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  8. Buka

    Buka Grandmaster

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  9. jaime_lion

    jaime_lion Orange Belt

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    Got any plans to come to south dakota would love to try this.

    Can I see a picture of your sticks?
     
  10. kempodisciple

    kempodisciple MT Moderator Staff Member

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    I dont think you meant it that way, as youre free to meet up and experiment with anyone you'd like on here, but just as a reminder challenge matches are not allowed on this site.
     
  11. jaime_lion

    jaime_lion Orange Belt

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    Understood and yeah it was ment as a funny comment.
     
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  12. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Sr. Grandmaster

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    Piece of good hickory. That’s a bone-cruncher.

    I realize this is not a challenge, and neither was my comment meant as one. But I’m saying, either your baton is very light, or you aren’t hitting very hard, or both. And try cracking it across your shin bone or knee cap or ankle bones, not just bouncing it on the meat of the leg.
     

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  13. drop bear

    drop bear Sr. Grandmaster

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    Yeah. That was going to be the difference. In the leg mat not drop the guy as well as advertised.
     
  14. jaime_lion

    jaime_lion Orange Belt

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    Removed the video. Will be doing another one when I get someone to hit me. Thanks for the input.
     
  15. pdg

    pdg Senior Master

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    I would offer my services to hit you with a stick, but I think you're too far away...


    The issue though is that even getting someone else to hit you isn't really a fair test - odds are that they're not going to want to hurt you so will hold back, subconsciously or not.
     
  16. jaime_lion

    jaime_lion Orange Belt

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    Have I posted this before?

     
  17. Danny T

    Danny T Senior Master

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    The Baton used in LEO work is used as a Nonlethal device. It is used as a pain compliant device.
    How many strikes were targeting the head? -0-.
    How many targeting the base of the neck or spine? -0-
     
  18. jaime_lion

    jaime_lion Orange Belt

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    While I do agree and to answer your question 0 i think. But thous guys were not aggressive. They were not blocking or fighting back. Honestly batons are mainly pain compliance weapons. Even hits to the head are no guarantee. How many times has a guy been knocked out and when he gets back up he is still ready to fight? Or how many times have guys been hit in the head without being knocked out?

    There is one thread on this very forum talking about how the person posting the topic got knocked out and came to 10 seconds later and was ready to beat up the guy that attacked him if the guy still had been there.

    It is kind of like comparing a 5 dollar flashlight to a 20 dollar flashlight. The cheaper one will generally be made of cheaper components and wont work as well or be as dependable. Would I buy a 5 dollar flashlight if I needed one for a project where the flashlight working was not a top priority. Yes I would. But if I needed the light like if I was going into a cave system and was "trusting my life" to a flashlight then I would go with the more expensive model.

    Similar with weapons. Would I trust my life to a baton that can be blocked or grabbed or ineffective on certain body parts or such? Or would I trust my life to a good solid knife that I know trust.

    Lol this is feeling like I have said this stuff before. Am I saying similar stuff I have posted on here before?
     
  19. Flying Crane

    Flying Crane Sr. Grandmaster

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    I said it before: a hickory baton is a bone cruncher. Other good, tough hardwoods too.

    If you used a baton meant for destroying a person, it works very well. It crunches bone, be it shin, kneecap, ankle, elbow, forearm, skull...it crunches them all. But it does take serious intent and commitment to the strike. In a training scenario, you cannot give the strike that kind of commitment. You will send your training partners (or yourself) to the hospital.

    But if you DO decide to give it the proper intent, it really does not take much.

    I think there is a tendency to view sticks and staves as less lethal because they don’t have sharp edges and sharp points and are devoid of metal bits. Somehow people want to believe that makes them softer and easier to shrug off. Well, if your stick is made of balsa wood or some light plastic like a whiffle bat, maybe so. But a stick made of an appropriate wood such as hickory can be used to kill or maim a man quite readily. Seriously, a stick or a staff is by no means a second-tier weapon.
     
  20. jaime_lion

    jaime_lion Orange Belt

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    The baton I used in the video was as far as I can tell red oak. Will a good baton hit have the same effect against someone who trains iron shin or other hard body stuff? I do not train iron shin just for the record. I do train iron palm.
     

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