Your thoughts on these locks?
- Thread starter Taiji Rebel
- Start date
It’s really not the locks, although good mechanics are important. There are only so many ways the body can move. Locks are easier to apply when the opponent is stunned or damaged in some way. We use many breaks and locks especially for the knife portion. We attempt to isolate the knife, have a few standard entries that we use as destructions and then attempt the break, lock,disarm or drive back. This is a loose description.
If you understand body unification, your opponent will have hard time to lock you. Aikido call that "unbendable elbow".
A friend of mine once stood on the stage and asked all audience to apply joint lock on him. Nobody could do it.
Some MA people even claim that joint locking doesn't exist. MA includes technique and ability. When your ability has reached to a certain level, technique may not work on you.
A friend of mine once stood on the stage and asked all audience to apply joint lock on him. Nobody could do it.
Some MA people even claim that joint locking doesn't exist. MA includes technique and ability. When your ability has reached to a certain level, technique may not work on you.
Taiji Rebel
2nd Black Belt
A Taiji friend sent me the video. These locks are being applied in a gentle demonstrative manner. In a controlled scenario it is easier to handle the effect. If those moves were cranked at full speed you would see a different outcome.
In essence, it was just a gentle demonstration of body mechanics and focus of energy (power) - well, those were my thoughts on first seeing the video.
In essence, it was just a gentle demonstration of body mechanics and focus of energy (power) - well, those were my thoughts on first seeing the video.
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drop bear
Sr. Grandmaster
You shouldn’t have to jack them on to get them to work.
And if you do. You ultimately run out of people to wrist lock.
Taiji Rebel
2nd Black Belt
You are 100% correct regarding training partners.
Do you imagine your locks would work on the guy in the video?
O'Malley
2nd Black Belt
The magic thing and energy talk is just a mental model to produce the desired physical effect. Like when muay thai coaches tell you to punch "through" the target. You don't actually punch through people.
As @Kung Fu Wang said, it's a variant of the unbendable arm trick. You use visualisation to extend the connective tissue like rubber bands so they prevent your structure from being deformed past a certain point. That's why the other guy says the arm feels weird or "inflated". That type of mental model can also help you produce different effects when applying the technique (also demonstrated in the video).
I've seen another fun demo that's quite similar to this. A and B start from the ground with A in B's guard. A gives his arm to B, palm up, and invites him to apply an armbar. They start "positional rolling" from there and, although it may get quite energetic and B is really trying, he cannot get the armbar, even when he gets his legs in position. I've seen this in two instances, each involving different people. In both cases B was a BJJ player (one a purple belt, the other blue or purple IIRC). One of the BJJ guys described the feeling as like "fighting a metallic squid", which would be a ridiculously cool name for a school.
Obviously, this is still a compliant environment but in full on fighting you don't rely entirely on being unbendable, you have other solutions (that's where knowing how to fight comes into play). The advantage is that you're not "posting" (which is strong in only one direction) but you are maintaining structure regardless of the direction of the force applied to you. As a consequence, your body naturally handles at least part of the other guy's power. Works with throws as well:
It used to be a central idea in daito ryu aikijujutsu (you can see it very well here):
Those locks are not being applied to an off balanced opponent
It's relatively easy to resist these kind of wrist locks if your structure is not compromised first. Of course you need to master the breaking mechanics of the wrist, but the more important skill is to master how to set up the wrist lock. Kinda like everything in grappling
I can show anyone how to do what the master showed in about 5 mins without any need to master energy
One technical point: The inside wrist lock (the one with the thumb pointing down) is best performed with the wrist higher than the shoulder
Taiji Rebel
2nd Black Belt
A lot of people are fascinated by martial tricks, especially when it involves talk of mystical energy
The guy in the green fails to apply the locks, because is is only focused on the wrist. He is the one with the broken structure and off balance, while trying to apply the lock to the other guy.... who is on balance and structurally sound.
When the guy in pink applies his magic.... he is applying his magic through the wrist to the elbow, then to the shoulder. He is effecting the other guys structure and balance. He is good, so these are subtle. But, he is concentrating on the whole body not just the wrist. He uses the wrist to get the elbow, the elbow to get the shoulder, the should to get the spine.
When the guy in pink applies his magic.... he is applying his magic through the wrist to the elbow, then to the shoulder. He is effecting the other guys structure and balance. He is good, so these are subtle. But, he is concentrating on the whole body not just the wrist. He uses the wrist to get the elbow, the elbow to get the shoulder, the should to get the spine.
What is the magic com
Did anybody try punching him in the throat first? Haha. Just drives home the point of “softening up” first before the fancy stuff. Unless that is, if the opponent is so unaware that he just gives it ya. Yes, and of course good mechanics.
drop bear
Sr. Grandmaster
Probably. Although I also just stop when training partners think they can tough it out
If you watch the guy in the video... he takes very small steps. These are super important to what is going on. The few times the other guy breaks his structure, this guy takes a small step or two to recover his structure and balance. Its subtle, but that is all it takes to resist the locks.
So in order to make your locks work on this guy, you have to prevent him from moving his feet. Since it is his demo, and his rules, this will be hard to do. However, it is important to notice this detail. Your locks don't work outside the dojo, because people outside the dojo are not trained to stay in one place while you hurt them.... they move. The trick to getting these locks to work outside your dojo.... is to figure out how to break their structure, take their balance and not let them have it back... even if they move like they are not supposed to. Those that figure this last bit out... have much higher success with these locks.
Or just a kick to the groin.
This is why old MA saying said, "A bad punch is better than a good lock." When you play 100% defense and your opponent only allows to apply joint locking on you, it's already an unfair game.
Generally speaking standing wrist locks either require strikes to set them up or they are used as part of a larger throw / take down
In no gi grappling they are pretty useful on their own but only if you’ve unbalanced your opponent first or you’re using the wrist lock to create reactions to set up a different sort of take down
In no gi grappling they are pretty useful on their own but only if you’ve unbalanced your opponent first or you’re using the wrist lock to create reactions to set up a different sort of take down
Taiji Rebel
2nd Black Belt
Remember it was just a demonstration of certain principles under controlled conditions. There was no toughing anything out in this scenario. The purpose of these kinds of lessons are demonstrating subtle principles. Where, and how, they would be applied is another question altogether.
Take a look at his website if you are curious to know a little more about the guy and his work:
Taiji Rebel
2nd Black Belt
Looks very much like Aikido with a bit of Daito Ryu Aikijujitsu mixed in there. This must be the Chinese version of this stuff???
When I see this kind of lock I always wonder why does the tori left the second hand of ukre free? Uke easily can block the lock with free hand.
A few times some aikido, self defence, etc "masters" tried to show me how this lock work and I always stopped their attempts just keeping attacked hand with the second one.
Every time they were surprized and angry.
This is why i like BJJ approach very much - first isolate the limb, then lock.
A few times some aikido, self defence, etc "masters" tried to show me how this lock work and I always stopped their attempts just keeping attacked hand with the second one.
Every time they were surprized and angry.
This is why i like BJJ approach very much - first isolate the limb, then lock.
