your thoughts on the Boxer Uprising

[tshadowchaser]

here is a link to one mans thought on "boxers" and what they where.
Lessons from the Boxer Uprising nysanda

What are your thoughts on the boxer rebellion? How historically accurate are the writings on it? who was really involved?

 

[clfsean]

EHHHHHHH .... I wasn't there so I go with the notion...

The winners write the history & the losers write the stories.

So much of Chinese MA history is wrapped up with folk tales, fishing stories and out out lies. The Western history of the event will have a Western oriented slant, the Chinese recollections will depend on where you were... Qing, Triad, commoner, etc...

 

[Xue Sheng]

The boxer rebellion is a lot more complicated and includes the Opium war, Empress Cixi, the Chinese military and foreign governments cutting up China for control. As far as the martial arts of today and how all the boxer rebellion effects what we practice now..... there is a lot that happened since; the Republic of China, Mao, the communists, world war one, two and the cultural revolution, as well as the MAist search for economic survival that likely had more effect on what we do now than the boxer rebellion does. Add to that what clfsean said and you pretty much got it.....

 

[tshadowchaser]

ok so lets do this in parts.
The country was in a bad state, poor economics and practically being invade by other European and Asian countries for it's resources. How much training did the average Boxer have. Where the populace in general the main source of "boxers" or where the tongs, secret societies, etc. the main source of fighters . Did these societies fight for both sides?
We can discuss other aspects later

 

[Xue Sheng]

It was not practically being invaded it was invaded by western powers and the British where very good at gun boat diplomacy (see the opium wars) and the Empress Cixi was very much dependent on the older ways, tradition and the glory that once was China.

Asking about the average boxer's training to me is much the same as asking about the average size of the rocks in China. Hard to say actually, but I am pretty sure there was everything from high level fighters to rank beginners in both empty hand and various traditional weapons. And there were those that felt they were invincible do to their special training. However bullets proved that belief wrong rather early on.

The Boxers were from all walks of life they were from the populace in general, criminals and secret societies, but again hard to actually say. I can say with some certainty that Cheng Tinghua was killed by European soldiers and he was not a member of a secret society or a criminal. He was the owner of a spectacle shop and a student of Dong Haichuan.

As far as fighting on both sides, I doubt it, but there were those forced into service to help European forces with things but fighting was not one of them as far as I know.

Boxer Rebellion (1898 to 1900)

 

[Xue Sheng]

You should also look at

First Opium War 1839–1842

Second Opium War 1856–1860

 

[tshadowchaser]

thanks for the links. I will look at them.
actually trying to get any type of discussion going here between people giving their thoughts to see if we might get differing opinions on some aspects of this period in Chinese history.
You comments and introspection are always interesting reading.

what where the "spirit boxers" ( I think that was the correct term) why did they think themselves invincible

 

[Xue Sheng]

thanks for the links. I will look at them.
actually trying to get any type of discussion going here between people giving their thoughts to see if we might get differing opinions on some aspects of this period in Chinese history.
You comments and introspection are always interesting reading.

what where the "spirit boxers" ( I think that was the correct term) why did they think themselves invincible

don't know about spirit boxers but it was the golden bell and iron shirt qigong they trained the made them think they were invincible

 

[tshadowchaser]

Ok, I had hear of both of those but know next to nothing about them
I had heard the term "Spirt Boxers" somewhere and always pressured it was related to the two you mentioned in some way. It might have just been a joke someone was making for all I know

 

[Xue Sheng]

Ok, I had hear of both of those but know next to nothing about them
I had heard the term "Spirt Boxers" somewhere and always pressured it was related to the two you mentioned in some way. It might have just been a joke someone was making for all I know

From the linked Wiki Article

The Boxers' primary feature was spirit possession, which involved "the whirling of swords, violent prostrations, and chanting incantations to Taoist and Buddhist spirits."[7]

The excitement and moral force of these possession rituals was especially attractive to unemployed and powerless village men, many of whom were teenagers.[8] The Boxers believed that through training, diet, martial arts and prayer they could perform extraordinary feats, such as flight. Furthermore, they popularly claimed that millions of spirit soldiers would descend from the heavens and assist them in purifying China of foreign influences.[9] The Boxers, armed with rifles and swords, claimed supernatural invulnerability towards blows of cannon, rifle shots, and knife attacks. The Boxer beliefs were characteristic of millenarian movements, related to such practices as the Native American Ghost Dance, another practice of a society under stress.

Could be where that came from, also could have been an actual term used too.

 

[tshadowchaser]

could have been someone referring to that when in a conversation with me. I try not to read much on Wiki as it can be changed by anyone and I do not know how accurate much of it is.

Ok, spirit soldiers descending and being invulnerable to rifle shot that some strong belief.

you have mentioned Golden Bell and iron shirt when you have the time could you inform me more on this training. I have a slight idea of what they may be but only the slightest

 

[Xue Sheng]

Iron Shirt is qigong training that is supposed to make it so you can take hits from fists, feet and weapons and not get harmed. When you see the traveling Shaolin troupe put a spear point on their body or throat and lean into it bending the spear that is supposed to be a demo of Iron shirt.

As to golden bell, I do not know much, there use to be a person on MT that trained Iron Bell, but I have not seen him on the site for years

 

[RhythmGJ]

I was going to say that the scenario reminded me a lot of the Native American Ghost Dance movement (with the same unfortunate outcome); but then the wiki author said it for me.

Interesting phenomenon.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Tez3]

I was going to say that the scenario reminded me a lot of the Native American Ghost Dance movement (with the same unfortunate outcome); but then the wiki author said it for me.

Interesting phenomenon.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The Kenyan Mau Mau believed they were immune to bullets.

 

[Transk53]

Oh well, I'm lost again

 

[clfsean]

don't know about spirit boxers but it was the golden bell and iron shirt qigong they trained the made them think they were invincible

That and the Taoist charms & such they were given before heading off to deal with the invaders. Add inn some group think brainwashing to help with the nationalist fervor, possibly some drugs, etc... anything is possible, until somebody draws blood.

 

[clfsean]

Iron Shirt is qigong training that is supposed to make it so you can take hits from fists, feet and weapons and not get harmed. When you see the traveling Shaolin troupe put a spear point on their body or throat and lean into it bending the spear that is supposed to be a demo of Iron shirt.

As to golden bell, I do not know much, there use to be a person on MT that trained Iron Bell, but I have not seen him on the site for years

Golden Bell is a specific body hardening/qigong practice that among some of the easier demonstrated uses, good for tricks. Some of the easier examples it are Ku Yu Cheong of Buk Siu Lum Pai with a car driving over him & some of his students standing on what looks like a large piece of marble while on top on Ku.

The Golden Bell practice can be found in that style I know. I don't know where else it's found to be honest.

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