Your honest opinion on William Cheung's Wing Chun system!

[Svemocn1vidar]

I won't even go into that regular discussion when William Cheung is concerned,"My Wing Chun is special,i was taught the real-deal,everyone else was fooled". I really don't care about that. It does not concern me. I never even belived that.
But what i want to know is your opinion on some stuff concerning his system. For example:
- Chi Sao (Which is not impressive at all,i've never seen William Cheung or any of his students do it in a masterfull manner,so to speak. No impressive speed,counter attacks or any feat that represents Wing Chun as it should. If you guys have seen any footage to disprove me,please,feel free to share)
- No relaxation? Hard style of Wing Chun? (I've starting my Wing Chun in Cheung's system and have soon realised it is far different from anything i've had access to. Most of the guys i worked with were very well trained,but they used Wing Chun techniques in a "Karate" manner,completly hard,with no or little relaxation or softness to it. Don't get me wrong,they were trained well,fast and strong,but they did not have one of the major parts of Wing Chun phylosophy,soft side...)
- First block then attack phylosophy? This is not a rule. But William Cheung at times insisted on this fighting phylosophy. As if this was integrated within my previous master,he would always block first,then attack,using the blind side (also the major focus of Cheung's system),even when there was no need for such actions. For example,against a experienced fighter,some of the stuff wouldnt work at all.
- Superiour footwork and rushing to the blindside? I think not. Their footwork is somewhat wider then other system,i would agree on that part,however,i disagree on the "superiour" part. There is nothing superiour about it,one just needs to train it out to understand. Also,it's good to be on another's blind side while fighting,i can understand that. However,it doesn't mean this strategy will work against experienced fighters who've done their homework while sparring and practicing footwork.
So,all in all,could you please give me your opinion on William Cheung's fighting system. I didnt mean to disrespect it,or Grandmaster William Cheung in any manner,but i left that kind of Wing Chun after a year or so and decided to practice something much closer to Yip Man's Hong Kong period of teaching.

Cheerz and respect to all Wing Chun schools.

 

[Svemocn1vidar]

Due to some sort of lag issue i had, i didnt realise i've created two same threads. I ask moderators to delete one of the two whenever they get the chance to do it.
Regards and thank you,
Vidar

 

[Eric_H]

What a lame attempt at trolling.

TWC's got vid clips of Sanda fighters, chi sao comp and whatever else you're looking for. Just type it in google and I'm sure you'll find something.

If you're pissed he said he got something better than the other guys - go prove him wrong.

 

[profesormental]

Greetings.

I suggest you go to the archives and search for this same discussion that has come up several times. From there, if you wish, bring up the points you want to discuss.

For example, why would X tactic be better than Y tactic? What tactic would be better and why?

Is A stance better than B Stance for C situation? Why?

This would lead to fruitful discussion in the long run instead of a bashing of whatever.

Hope that helps.

 

[Xue Sheng]

:trollsign

 

[hunt1]

Your comments about TWC are based n a conceit. That you know or have learned the correct wing chun.

Some one from TWC could look at what you do and also have a list of complaints.

TWC has good points and bad points like everything else.

It's a bit funny that you started this thread. I went to your you tube page and in many of the favorites vid's you can plainly see basic wing chun principals being violated yet no comments about them.

 

[Svemocn1vidar]

Your comments about TWC are based n a conceit. That you know or have learned the correct wing chun.

Some one from TWC could look at what you do and also have a list of complaints.

TWC has good points and bad points like everything else.

It's a bit funny that you started this thread. I went to your you tube page and in many of the favorites vid's you can plainly see basic wing chun principals being violated yet no comments about them.

If you have seen my channel,then you must have also seen that i appreciate many TWC masters. There's nothing funny about me starting this thread. If i misunderstood the concepts of TWC,then please,explain them to me. I never said i know something for certain nor did i say my previous statements are facts.

- Concerning those that called me a "troll". I thank you for your insults. They show much of your character. I respect TWC and Grandmaster William Cheung,if you failed to see this,it's your own inability to comprehend things. Since i am not experienced in TWC,i just tried it,please be so kind to answer my above points.
If you see my channel you will notice that i respect and cherish ALL wing chun schools,no matter the lineage. Thus,i havent in any way insult the way of Cheung's TWC.

 

[Svemocn1vidar]

What a lame attempt at trolling.

TWC's got vid clips of Sanda fighters, chi sao comp and whatever else you're looking for. Just type it in google and I'm sure you'll find something.

If you're pissed he said he got something better than the other guys - go prove him wrong.

Another member that missunderstood the point of my thread. I wanted to know why some of the issues mentioned above do or do not work. Esspecially the Chi Sao part. I am not pissed at all if Grandmaster Cheung's system has some superiour parts then other systems. I just dont see TWC concepts as superiour. As for "Sanda" fighters,i probably know more Gold medalists in person then yourself. I've trained with them. TWC guys from Serbia won gold medals in Sanda competitions in the past,i respect them. But still,true Wing Chun principals mean little or nothing at all in sport competitions.

 

[wtxs]

If you have seen my channel,then you must have also seen that i appreciate many TWC masters. There's nothing funny about me starting this thread. If i misunderstood the concepts of TWC,then please,explain them to me. I never said i know something for certain nor did i say my previous statements are facts.

- Concerning those that called me a "troll". I thank you for your insults. They show much of your character. I respect TWC and Grandmaster William Cheung,if you failed to see this,it's your own inability to comprehend things. Since i am not experienced in TWC,i just tried it,please be so kind to answer my above points.
If you see my channel you will notice that i respect and cherish ALL wing chun schools,no matter the lineage. Thus,i havent in any way insult the way of Cheung's TWC.

First, we must appreciate that WC is an adaptive art form ... which we make it work according to our physical structure, to that end, what we see of others are doing as ineffective/inefficient in our eyes does not meant squat. What WC you are doing could be viewed in the same context.

As the direct result of said adaptation, we make WC work to suit our own INDIVIDUAL needs, and it WILL NOT look like the ways of you or I would, long as we can get the desired end result.

I have posted before ... DON'T judge the book by its cover, in this case, by some demo video clips, or biased by the linage of WC you're currently learning.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Next time you give someone a bad rep at least have the guts to sign it and make sure your comments are applicable to the person you’re giving said bad rep too and don't accuse the person of saying things they NEVER SAID...

 

[Svemocn1vidar]

Next time you give someone a bad rep at least have the guts to sign it and make sure your comments are applicable to the person you’re giving said bad rep too and don't accuse the person of saying things they NEVER SAID...

Dear sir,"don't feed the troll" is an insult to me. I neg'ed you and explained why. You were dissrespectful. Was i the same to you? If so,i am deeply sorry. Have the guts to sign what? You have all avaliable information you need in explanation and my profil page,feel free to check,fellow practicioner.
You could have done much better by helping my undestand the principles behind things i mentioned above,which in my mind are minor flaws of TWC. Instead,you decided act as a spoiled child by calling someone a troll,something i would have never done.
Once again,if anything is missunderstood,i am sorry.

 

[Flying Crane]

I won't even go into that regular discussion when William Cheung is concerned,"My Wing Chun is special,i was taught the real-deal,everyone else was fooled". I really don't care about that. It does not concern me. I never even belived that.
But what i want to know is your opinion on some stuff concerning his system. For example:
- Chi Sao (Which is not impressive at all,i've never seen William Cheung or any of his students do it in a masterfull manner,so to speak. No impressive speed,counter attacks or any feat that represents Wing Chun as it should. If you guys have seen any footage to disprove me,please,feel free to share)
- No relaxation? Hard style of Wing Chun? (I've starting my Wing Chun in Cheung's system and have soon realised it is far different from anything i've had access to. Most of the guys i worked with were very well trained,but they used Wing Chun techniques in a "Karate" manner,completly hard,with no or little relaxation or softness to it. Don't get me wrong,they were trained well,fast and strong,but they did not have one of the major parts of Wing Chun phylosophy,soft side...)
- First block then attack phylosophy? This is not a rule. But William Cheung at times insisted on this fighting phylosophy. As if this was integrated within my previous master,he would always block first,then attack,using the blind side (also the major focus of Cheung's system),even when there was no need for such actions. For example,against a experienced fighter,some of the stuff wouldnt work at all.
- Superiour footwork and rushing to the blindside? I think not. Their footwork is somewhat wider then other system,i would agree on that part,however,i disagree on the "superiour" part. There is nothing superiour about it,one just needs to train it out to understand. Also,it's good to be on another's blind side while fighting,i can understand that. However,it doesn't mean this strategy will work against experienced fighters who've done their homework while sparring and practicing footwork.
So,all in all,could you please give me your opinion on William Cheung's fighting system. I didnt mean to disrespect it,or Grandmaster William Cheung in any manner,but i left that kind of Wing Chun after a year or so and decided to practice something much closer to Yip Man's Hong Kong period of teaching.

Cheerz and respect to all Wing Chun schools.

It looks to me like your own opinion is pretty well made up. Does it matter what others may think?

 

[Svemocn1vidar]

It looks to me like your own opinion is pretty well made up. Does it matter what others may think?

It does to me? Why would i ask something or start a thread for that matter if other people opinion matters not?
I merely wished to see some opinions on things i mentioned were minor flaws of the system. It's speed and power are obvious. I've trained with,am friends with,and have been to seminars with TWC people.
Some of them even agreed on my argument that they lack chi sao relaxation and visible feats. My opinion is made up,say you? Ok then,perhaps i made all this up. I've stated only the things i've seen with my own eyes.

 

[Flying Crane]

It does to me? Why would i ask something or start a thread for that matter if other people opinion matters not?
I merely wished to see some opinions on things i mentioned were minor flaws of the system. It's speed and power are obvious. I've trained with,am friends with,and have been to seminars with TWC people.
Some of them even agreed on my argument that they lack chi sao relaxation and visible feats. My opinion is made up,say you? Ok then,perhaps i made all this up. I've stated only the things i've seen with my own eyes.

Then perhaps you should take a look at how you have presented yourself in this thread and consider whether that may have prompted the kind of replies you've received.

You entitle the thread "Your Honest Opinion on William Cheung's Wing Chun", and then you proceed to state that essentially everything about it is wrong. OK, you don't like it, that's your choice, you can feel however you want about it. But in this context it really looks like you are just bitching about him and you want to gripe to the world about it. Do you not see the relationship here?

You really have not opened the door to honest discussion about the topic, and you are the guy who started the thread.

 

[Svemocn1vidar]

Then perhaps you should take a look at how you have presented yourself in this thread and consider whether that may have prompted the kind of replies you've received.

You entitle the thread "Your Honest Opinion on William Cheung's Wing Chun", and then you proceed to state that essentially everything about it is wrong. OK, you don't like it, that's your choice, you can feel however you want about it. But in this context it really looks like you are just bitching about him and you want to gripe to the world about it. Do you not see the relationship here?

You really have not opened the door to honest discussion about the topic, and you are the guy who started the thread.

Ahh,the title,Christ,you're right!
I see the point. If possible at all,i will change the title. It is a little bit confusing indeed! I meant to indicate the flaws of the things i've seen in the system and then debate about them.

 

[jks9199]

Folks,
Let me remind everyone of a few rules hereabouts.

Fraudbusting is discouraged here. Strongly. Stick to the issues about the style, and avoid trying to get into who's Wing Chun is "real".

If you've got a problem with a post or with reputation points -- bring it to the staff. Don't carp in a thread. Any post can be reported by clicking on the RTM button; it's the red & white triangle thingy up there in the corner.

Rep can be reported by sending a PM to any staff member, especially senior staff,or to the MT Admin Team account.

So -- everybody play nice, and let's avoid having the staff take a more official role in this thread.

 

[geezer]

Dear sir,"don't feed the troll" is an insult to me. I neg'ed you and explained why. You were dissrespectful....Once again,if anything is missunderstood,i am sorry.

Let's stop right now guys!

Svemocn1vidar, I understand that you weren't intending to stir things up, but there's no need to go around dinging people's rep. Xue is quite well liked around here. It would be better to step back, cool off and just clarify things. For what it's worth, my take on TWC is pretty close to yours, but I've also met some pretty decent folks that practice it. We all have our preferences. Maybe it would be better to talk about the techniques of TWC, but leave William Cheung's name out of it. Especially since you are a student of Emin's! I mean that's bound to stir things up! As you know, a lot of us respect Emin's skills, but when a WT student, any branch, starts a critique of TWC, tempers are bound to flare. So I just keep my opinions to myself. Mostly, anyway.

 

[Flying Crane]

Ahh,the title,Christ,you're right!
I see the point. If possible at all,i will change the title. It is a little bit confusing indeed! I meant to indicate the flaws of the things i've seen in the system and then debate about them.

I also noticed that you are from Beograd, so perhaps there is a language barrier that is making it difficult to express yourself the way you intend. If so, that is perfectly understandable and maybe knowing that, the rest of us can go a bit easy on you too.

 

[Xue Sheng]

Edit

Out of respect for the moderators I have deleted what I posted in order to not make thier job any more difficult

I am done with this thread

 

[Svemocn1vidar]

Let's stop right now guys!

Svemocn1vidar, I understand that you weren't intending to stir things up, but there's no need to go around dinging people's rep. Xue is quite well liked around here. It would be better to step back, cool off and just clarify things. For what it's worth, my take on TWC is pretty close to yours, but I've also met some pretty decent folks that practice it. We all have our preferences. Maybe it would be better to talk about the techniques of TWC, but leave William Cheung's name out of it. Especially since you are a student of Emin's! I mean that's bound to stir things up! As you know, a lot of us respect Emin's skills, but when a WT student, any branch, starts a critique of TWC, tempers are bound to flare. So I just keep my opinions to myself. Mostly, anyway.

I agree completly but please allow me to repeat :
I've nothing but respect for Grandmaster William Cheung as a martial-artist,i wouldnt call him Grandmaster otherwise. Esspecially since i trained in the system at start. Nothing here is about "the real deal" or whatnot,only about techniques,feats of the system.
Considering Master Emin,i've never heard him say anything bad about TWC,this is not him or my Sifu speaking through me. Only my view on some stuff.
We in Serbia are really close to TWC people,we have nothing but respect for each-other and we know each other in person.
Cheerz and respect and thank you Geezer for inteligent response. Meant no disrespect to mister Xue,i merely responded accordingly.