Yoo Sin #s 15-19

Earl Weiss

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If you are not a Chang Hon Stylist you can stop reading now.

Yoo Sin 15 -19.

Premise. If you are in a sitting stance and pivot on the balls of the feet you can pivot to a proper walking stance. The foot that would become the lead foot would pivot 45 degrees and the rear foot would pivot at least 20 degrees to reach the no more than 25 degree angle. Pivoting more than this on the lead foot with the accompanying greater pivot of the rear foot would result in the walking stance being too narrow.

Is the above correct or not?

Now, taking this into account we have:

#15 Sitting stance to BD
#16 Walking stance to BC
Foot diagram with single photo shows left foot may have been moved and not just pivot.
Foot diagram below photo series may show just a pivot or it may not.
#17 Sitting Stance to BD
Foot diagram with single photo may show a slight repositioning of right foot - may not.
Foot diagram with series of photos seems to show pivot but could also show left foot change.
#18 Walking stance to AD
Foot diagram with single photo seems to show slight relocation of right foot and pivot with the left.
Foot diagram with series of photos also may show slight right foot re position.

Now, this most definitely seems to be an example of angles where the #s 16 & 18 BC / AD directions are not half way between B&C / A&D . They are just slightly to C / A.

So, the questions are:

Is the above premise correct vis a vis Mac 45 degree pivot from sitting to walking stance for a correct Walking stance?
For moves 15-18 is it pivot only (And if so and you agree with the premise how is the issue of a greater than 45 degree pivot resolved?
Or
Is a foot relocated during the transitions? If so what is / are the repositions.

Yes I need to get a life.
 

chrispillertkd

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If you are not a Chang Hon Stylist you can stop reading now.

Yoo Sin 15 -19.

Premise. If you are in a sitting stance and pivot on the balls of the feet you can pivot to a proper walking stance. The foot that would become the lead foot would pivot 45 degrees and the rear foot would pivot at least 20 degrees to reach the no more than 25 degree angle. Pivoting more than this on the lead foot with the accompanying greater pivot of the rear foot would result in the walking stance being too narrow.

Is the above correct or not?

Yes. Pivoting so the front foot moves more than 45 degrees puts you in a stance that is too narrow to be considered a proper walking stance. In fact, if you go too far with the pivot the width between the feet can end up being basically a straight line.

Now, taking this into account we have:

#15 Sitting stance to BD
#16 Walking stance to BC
Foot diagram with single photo shows left foot may have been moved and not just pivot.
Foot diagram below photo series may show just a pivot or it may not.

For what it's worth, my edition of the encyclopedia has the foot diagram for the left foot for this movement slightly shifted instead of being directly over top of the "previous position" diagram. The right foot diagram, however, does not show any movement of the foot's relative position. In other words, the ball of the right foot lines up in the same position (albeit it at a different angle) in movement 16 as it was in movement 15.

The left foot position is slightly shifted ("backwards") in the diagram. This is, I believe, an editing error for several reasons. The first being, as you mentioned above, the feet should have the same general length when shifting from a sitting to a walking stance. Secondly, there is no dotted line in the diagram indicating that the left foot had moved position, as is present when you step into a new stance or shift a foot backwards and then forwards to change to a stance with different length than the one you were in previously. Thirdly, I have never seen anyone perform this movement by pulling their left foot and then shifting it back into position.

#17 Sitting Stance to BD
Foot diagram with single photo may show a slight repositioning of right foot - may not.
Foot diagram with series of photos seems to show pivot but could also show left foot change.
#18 Walking stance to AD
Foot diagram with single photo seems to show slight relocation of right foot and pivot with the left.
Foot diagram with series of photos also may show slight right foot re position.

Same explanation as above. For whatever reason they seem to have slightly staggered the foot position diagrams instead of directly overlapping them at the ball of the foot. Perhaps so the end result is more legible?

Now, this most definitely seems to be an example of angles where the #s 16 & 18 BC / AD directions are not half way between B&C / A&D . They are just slightly to C / A.

I think so. There are some people who are a little pedantic about directions such as BC/AD/whatever are exactly 45 degrees but I think this is not the case.

So, the questions are:

Is the above premise correct vis a vis Mac 45 degree pivot from sitting to walking stance for a correct Walking stance?
For moves 15-18 is it pivot only (And if so and you agree with the premise how is the issue of a greater than 45 degree pivot resolved?



Or
Is a foot relocated during the transitions? If so what is / are the repositions.

I would say not for the simple fact that I have never seen anyone do this and there is no "real" indication that this is happening in either the written text or the foot diagrams themselves (no broken line indicating movement of the foot such as stepping or shifting has taken place).

Yoo-Sin has not been a pattern that I had the opportunity to see Gen. Choi teach while he was alive but here is a video of him teaching Yoo-Sin and he doesn't mention any sort of foot shifting for the movements in question

Yes I need to get a life.

As do I, apparently :)

Pax,

Chris
 
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Earl Weiss

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Mr. Spiller, our analysis of the text seems similar if not identical.
 

chrispillertkd

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Mr. Spiller, our analysis of the text seems similar if not identical.
Master Weiss, yes I quite agree. I made this point at the beginning of my previous post but it may have gotten lost in the rest of the answers.

I've seen people over rotate while shifting from a walking to sitting stane (or vice versa) and get off balance because the new stance wasn't wide enough. The length of the new stance is OK but the width can suddenlly be effectively zero. With the force from shifting and the improper width you can see them wobble as they try to regain balance.

Pax,

Chris
 

chrispillertkd

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Oops it appears I just answered a part of your post that was edited out! My bad.

Did you ever see Gen. Choi address the question about moving the foot vs simply shifting stances, sir?

Pax,

Chris
 
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Earl Weiss

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Oops it appears I just answered a part of your post that was edited out! My bad.

Did you ever see Gen. Choi address the question about moving the foot vs simply shifting stances, sir?

Pax,

Chris


Never saw any one address this question. Heck, never really thought about it specificaly (although always thought it was somewhat awkward) until recently teaching it to newer third dans and one asked the question "If we turn that much isn't our stance to narrow?". Those pesky third dans.

Kind of like that pesky question of Dan Gun not starting and finishing on thesame spot.
 
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