Yet another homophobic hate crime in Colorado, but with a twist!

[Josh Oakley]

Some of you may remember the article I posted about Jo Oberdier, who runs Queer Impact, a non-profit self defense class geared towards the LBGTQ community. Well, last night he was jumped by 3 guys for kissing a guy in public today. He is fine, but for some minor dings. The other guys are less fine. I don't know the extent of the damage is to the three guys that jumped him are, but I know they're pissed off and buthurt (pun intended) that they got their assess handed to them by a gay guy!I'd love to meet those guys and see how they feel, having attempted to prey on the weak, only to become the prey themselves. My biggest regret is that nobody filmed it!

 

[JohnEdward]

Is there any evidence the 3 attackers are not gay themselves, and just straight. What makes you believe the other 3 guys where straight acting with pent up homosexual frustrations? What was the motive? Could it have been an act of an affair of the heart, a past lover, jealously, etc., Or a targeted street crime, a mugging, hate crime, car jacking, etc? Is there details on the motive, and the attackers?

 

[Josh Oakley]

Is there any evidence the 3 attackers are not gay themselves, and just straight. What makes you believe the other 3 guys where straight acting with pent up homosexual frustrations? What was the motive? Could it have been an act of an affair of the heart, a past lover, jealously, etc., Or a targeted street crime, a mugging, hate crime, car jacking, etc? Is there details on the motive, and the attackers?

Dude. Anti-gay beatings in Colorado have been on he rise and I have already posted on this topic before. And in any event I am not claiming that they have pent up homosexual frustrations. Based on the slurs that were used before they got to him which were all derogatory and targeted towards his orientation.And I find it odd that one of the alternative explanations you offer is "HATE CRIME" when that is what I said it was IN THE TITLE! But what annoys me more than the lack of attention to detail here was that your first impulse was to undermine the story (though I am sure it will be spun as "getting more information") rather than express any concern or relief that my friend was not seriously injured. If you are going to derail a thread, maybe try being less callous about it. This was a jerk post, dude.

 

[JohnEdward]

Dude. Anti-gay beatings in Colorado have been on he rise and I have already posted on this topic before. And in any event I am not claiming that they have pent up homosexual frustrations. Based on the slurs that were used before they got to him which were all derogatory and targeted towards his orientation.And I find it odd that one of the alternative explanations you offer is "HATE CRIME" when that is what I said it was IN THE TITLE! But what annoys me more than the lack of attention to detail here was that your first impulse was to undermine the story (though I am sure it will be spun as "getting more information") rather than express any concern or relief that my friend was not seriously injured. If you are going to derail a thread, maybe try being less callous about it. This was a jerk post, dude.

God sakes, please.....chill out......I was only asking a few questions, jeeze. You didn't give the URL to the article or the thread, and I was asking your opinion....mature reply would have been adequate. :hb:

I have never advocated pot smoking.....maybe you might consider it.

You make a hell of allot of assumptions reel in the paranoid.......get a grip....breath.

 

[JohnEdward]

What I didn't used any offensive terms or words. I have seen a post recently using a derogatory term in a derogatory way for homosexual in the thread about about women boxers wearing skirts in the olympics. And no one abject to it..........yet there is abjection to me asking neutral questions wanting more information. What some of you miss Twin Fist?

Just because I am from Texas doesn't mean you I should be stereo typed .

 

[JohnEdward]

How do you know I am not a person who is concerned, or a genuine interest? Why assume the negative and attack me....isn't that what trolls do? Did it every dawn on you, I might want to know the details because am a martial artist, and have an interest in self-defense- this is in the general self-defense forum:hb:

 

[JohnEdward]

I have tried to find information on this incident again, I will admit am not all that great sometimes doing searches. What I did find was some positive news about Colorado.

http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_19336798

 

[elder999]

What I didn't used any offensive terms or words. I have seen a post recently using a derogatory term in a derogatory way for homosexual in the thread about about women boxers wearing skirts in the olympics.

No, you didn't.

That's a pretty lame attempt at deflection-I merely used the word "gay," and not in a derogatory way. I pointed out that if the guy needs skirts to distinguish women boxers from male boxers, he might just be gay-it was more of a comic observation than anything.

Telling, though, that you would think that calling someone "gay" is derogatory.

In any case, anyone who's been here since before Apr. 2011, and has seen my posts about homosexuals-since March of 2005-will tell you that I'd be the last person anyone could accuse of an anti-gay sentiment. In fact: here are all my current posts in threads with the word "homosexual." See for yourself. I'm especially fond of this one:

I posted about this once-I've cut and pasted the pertinent part:

Leviticus 20:13: "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them."


The first part of this verse is literally translated as "And with a male you shall not lay lyings of a woman" Many, probably most, theologians, Bible translations and biblical commentators agree that the verse is directed at men who engage in at least some form of anal sex with other men, but they do not agree on the full scope of the forbidden activities.

The verse is, unfortunately, incomplete. Its precise meaning is unclear. The phrase "lay lyings" has no obvious interpretation. Attempts have been made to make sense out of the original Hebrew by inserting a short phrase into the verse.

Obviously, it is important for a student of the Bible to resolve exactly what behavior is forbidden: is it:

All homosexual behavior, by either men or women, or
All sexual behavior between two men, or
Only anal sex between two men, or
Only anal sex in a Pagan temple ritual, or
Sexual activity between two men in a woman's bed?

Unfortunately, there is no consensus on the meaning of this verse. Many people tend to select that interpretation that most closely reinforces their initial beliefs about the Bible and homosexual behavior, but this probably isn't so at all.

Leviticus 20:3 is part of the Jewish Holiness Code which also: permits polygamy ,prohibits sexual intercourse when a woman has her period ,bans tattoos ,prohibits eating rare meat ,bans wearing clothes that are made from a blend of textiles ,prohibits cross-breeding livestock ,bans sowing a field with mixed seed ,prohibits eating pigs, rabbits, or some forms of seafood , and requires Saturday to be reserved as the Sabbath.

Churches have essentially abandoned the Holiness Code. It is no longer binding on modern-day Christians. They can wear tattoos, eat shrimp and wear polyester-cotton blends without violating this particular section of the Bible. Although this code is obsolete for Christians, many clergy still abuse the Bible by taking these verses out of context and using them to bash homosexuals.

It is likely that the prohibition "thou shall not lie with a male as with a woman came about for one of the following reasons:

Only sexual acts which could lead to procreation were valued as the tribes needed to grow in numbers in order to survive. Male homosexual sex may have been connected in the Hebrew mind with idolatry. Notice that Leviticus 18:2 deals with idolatry. In fact many of the prohibitions in the Holiness Code were probably connected with idolatrous practices. See 19:26-29.

Women were second class citizens in the Hebrew culture and were generally treated as property. If a man was penetrated in sexual intercourse he was being treated like a woman and so was degraded in the Hebrew mind. The offense was not that this was a homosexual act, the offense was that a MAN was treated like a WOMAN. If this line of thinking is correct it would serve to explain why there is no prohibition against female homosexual acts in the Old Testament.

In closing, I-who am neither a "Christian" or homosexual-usually say that I follow everything Jesus said about homosexuality, which, as all you Christians know, is nothing.

Please take note of the last bolded sentence, and stop trying to get your pancake bunny on me...... :lfao:

I mean:

Is there any evidence the 3 attackers are not gay themselves, and just straight. What makes you believe the other 3 guys where straight acting with pent up homosexual frustrations? What was the motive? Could it have been an act of an affair of the heart, a past lover, jealously, etc., Or a targeted street crime, a mugging, hate crime, car jacking, etc? Is there details on the motive, and the attackers?

 

[Josh Oakley]

*facepalm* Alright, John. You aren't going to find a URL on this story. This is an incident that occurred to my friend Jo Oberdier, the night before my original post. Not every jumping is the focus of a news story, especially in an area where such occurrences are prevalent. In this case, I was posting about a very good friend of mine: Jo "Obi" Oberdier, who offers a self-defense class in Denver, targeted towards empowering the LGBTQ community. I posted about his program back in October. The night before I posted this, he was attacked by three guys who yelled anti-gay things at him before doing so, after seeing him kiss another guy. Obi defended himself and prevailed. That is the story. Again, this is a personal story from a friend, not a news article.

What I didn't used any offensive terms or words. I have seen a post recently using a derogatory term in a derogatory way for homosexual in the thread about about women boxers wearing skirts in¡ the olympics. And no one abject to it..........yet there is abjection to me asking neutral questions wanting more information. What some of you miss Twin Fist?Just because I am from Texas doesn't mean you I should be stereo typed .

I never said you USED offensive terms or words. And most of your questions fell under the overall question of what is the motive (which was already given), while stating alternatives.The rest of this post has nothing to do with the topic at hand.

How do you know I am not a person who is concerned, or a genuine interest? Why assume the negative and attack me....isn't that what trolls do? Did it every dawn on you, I might want to know the details because am a martial artist, and have an interestin self-defense- this is in the general self-defense forum

I don't know whether you are concerned about Obi or not because you never actually asked how he is. I did not attack YOU. I criticised the methods you employed and the post itself. There is a big difference. And for the last question, no it did not dawn on me, because NONE of the questions you asked were of a self-defense nature. Except for MAYBE the question of motive, you have yet to bring up a single point or question actually pertaining to self-defense.

 

[Josh Oakley]

And elder, while I respect you and generally like your posts, I have to question the relevance of your post to the original topic. Derailed trains are not helped by further detailing.

 

[Carol]

I think many of us approach our training with the hope of never having to use it in a live situation, but the intent of knowing we might have to do exactly that.

3 on 1 is a nasty situation. Glad your friend Obi is OK.

 

[oftheherd1]

I don't want to take this thread further from the intent of the OP, so Josh Oakly, my apologies. However, for future readers, I feel constrained to comment on elder999's post. First, as others, I am glad to hear your friend survived the attack on him. Just for clarification of what I will say below, I do not agree with homosexuality, but do not hate homosexuals.

Mr. Elder999, I don't have an interlinear Hebrew-English bible, so I don't know how accurate you are as to your translation of "lay lyings." I don't think if matters much. The committee that translated the King James Bible, contained many scholarly men who had not only studied Hebrew, but spoke it fluently. Separate committees translated parts of the Bible they were given. What they had translated were then confirmed by their own committee members. When all agreed, their translation was submitted to the other committees. All had to agree before a translation was accepted. I accept their translation as correct, and more, God inspired and controlled. You are of course free to disagree.

I noted also that you had failed to comment on Paul's mention of homosexuality. Nor did you mention that Sodom was destroyed because of the sins of the citizens, the only sin declared in the Bible, being homosexuality. The Bible is clear that homosexuality is a sin that is an abomination to God. You or others have free will to choose to commit any sin no matter. As to committing sin, it is something that we all do. The only difference according to the Bible, being that those that have accepted Jesus as their savior, have their sins paid for already. Those are my beliefs. As I said, you and anyone else is free to disagree, I just didn't want to have your confusion go without comment for anyone who may not know otherwise.

One last thing, I was surprised to see you say that Jesus never said anything about homosexuality. However, not being a Christian, I can see how you might not know otherwise. According to Jesus himself, as well as the first chapter of John, Jesus is God. Again according to John, Jesus was not only present at creation, he was the creator. As God, he would also then have defined sin, and be against sin. So when the Bible says homosexuality is sin, Jesus, as God, is also saying it. That may not be something you wish to agree with, since you are not a Christian. That is your right. As I said, I just wanted to put forth another view for those who might be confused by your post.

If you disagree strongly enough to wish to discuss if further, we should probably either do so in PMs, or in one of the threads like the Bar and Grill.

Have a good day sir.

 

[Josh Oakley]

I think many of us approach our training with the hope of never having to use it in a live situation, but the intent of knowing we might have to do exactly that.

3 on 1 is a nasty situation. Glad your friend Obi is OK.

I'm just glad they only came armed with their fists! Obi's a fantastic martial artist, but weapons would increase the pucker factor about 100-fold.

 

[Josh Oakley]

I don't want to take this thread further from the intent of the OP, so Josh Oakly, my apologies. However, for future readers, I feel constrained to comment on elder999's post. First, as others, I am glad to hear your friend survived the attack on him. Just for clarification of what I will say below, I do not agree with homosexuality, but do not hate homosexuals.

Mr. Elder999, I don't have an interlinear Hebrew-English bible, so I don't know how accurate you are as to your translation of "lay lyings." I don't think if matters much. The committee that translated the King James Bible, contained many scholarly men who had not only studied Hebrew, but spoke it fluently. Separate committees translated parts of the Bible they were given. What they had translated were then confirmed by their own committee members. When all agreed, their translation was submitted to the other committees. All had to agree before a translation was accepted. I accept their translation as correct, and more, God inspired and controlled. You are of course free to disagree.

I noted also that you had failed to comment on Paul's mention of homosexuality. Nor did you mention that Sodom was destroyed because of the sins of the citizens, the only sin declared in the Bible, being homosexuality. The Bible is clear that homosexuality is a sin that is an abomination to God. You or others have free will to choose to commit any sin no matter. As to committing sin, it is something that we all do. The only difference according to the Bible, being that those that have accepted Jesus as their savior, have their sins paid for already. Those are my beliefs. As I said, you and anyone else is free to disagree, I just didn't want to have your confusion go without comment for anyone who may not know otherwise.

One last thing, I was surprised to see you say that Jesus never said anything about homosexuality. However, not being a Christian, I can see how you might not know otherwise. According to Jesus himself, as well as the first chapter of John, Jesus is God. Again according to John, Jesus was not only present at creation, he was the creator. As God, he would also then have defined sin, and be against sin. So when the Bible says homosexuality is sin, Jesus, as God, is also saying it. That may not be something you wish to agree with, since you are not a Christian. That is your right. As I said, I just wanted to put forth another view for those who might be confused by your post.

If you disagree strongly enough to wish to discuss if further, we should probably either do so in PMs, or in one of the threads like the Bar and Grill.

Have a good day sir.

I thank you for your concern for my friend. And I thank you vehemently that you have chosen to take the preachy stuff somewhere else.

 

[Josh Oakley]

I have tried to find information on this incident again, I will admit am not all that great sometimes doing searches. What I did find was some positive news about Colorado.

http://www.denverpost.com/news/ci_19336798

And by the way, this takes into account ALL REPORTED hate crimes. Not the ones that go unreported, and not just the gay ones. Colorado Springs, Where Obi lives, is something of an anti-gay mecca, being the city where Focus on the Family is headquartered and all. I remember talking to him right after we both got out of USSD when both our areas switched to Z-Ultimate (PLEASE DO NOT COMMENT ON EITHER COMPANY, JUST GIVING BACKGROUND AND I DO NOT WANT THIS THREAD LOCKED!!!!!) and he had a chance to move, or to stay in Colorado, and it did not sit right with him to flee the situation in Colorado Springs. Not much later, Queer Impact was born. What these three idiots don't realize is that all they to was motivate him and help remind him of what he is trying to fix out in Colorado.

 

[WC_lun]

Good on Obi. I'm glad he survived a bad situation unscathed. Just as an added benefit, it sounds like some ignorant bullies got thier come uppance.

 

[oftheherd1]

I thank you for your concern for my friend. And I thank you vehemently that you have chosen to take the preachy stuff somewhere else.

Not at all. I am truely glad your friend came out ahead. I detest people who gang up on others, no matter the reason. If they disagree with his life style, that is their right. As it is their right to tell him so. But they have neither the moral nor legal right to simply choose to try and beat him up for that. As I said, I disagree with homosexuality myself. But had I been there, I would have cheered him on, and probably joined him in his defense Although he apparently wouldn't have needed help, I wouldn't likely have know that. But just another person changing the odds would likely have stopped the assault.

As to the preachy stuff. It is not really a part of your thread. I only commented as I felt there was some intent to present misinformation, and wanted to comment on that. Elder999, if my assessment is wrong, my apologies, but we should discuss that in PMs or a separate thread so this one can continue to be a celabration of Josh Oakly's friend's safety.