Wing vs. Weng

[KPM]

I was in Hong Kong just 2 weeks ago for training. We know in the west that we spell "Wing" Chun and "Weng" Chun to distinguish between the two systems that use different Chinese characters for the "Wing" part. And I've always been told that they are pronounced the same way when speaking.

Weng 永 Forever, Eternal, Perpetual
Wing 詠 Sing, Hum, Chant, Praise

But I had more than one native speaker in Hong Kong tell me that this is not true. They said that "Wing" is indeed pronounced just as it would be in "chicken wing." However, "Weng" is pronounced like the "ea" in "mung bean." So there is a slight difference.

These are pronounced "Yong" in Mandarin. I'm told there are more tones in Cantonese than in Mandarin. So maybe this is where the idea that they are pronounced exactly the same came from...maybe they are the same in Mandarin, but slightly different in Cantonese. I didn't think to ask Sifu about this.

As Sifu was explaining the differences between the two systems he would switch back and forth between saying "Wing Chun" and "Weng Chun." At first I had a problem telling the two apart. But after a short while I could easily distinguish between the two.

Just thought I'd share. And before the naysayers chime in, I'll point out that my Sifu was born and raised in Hong Kong and is a native speaker of Cantonese and Mandarin and also speaks English very well.

 

[wckf92]

Interesting. Thx for posting.

Was this trip relative to your Pin Sun stuff (?) Or the Tang Yik / long pole studies?

 

[KPM]

Interesting. Thx for posting.

Was this trip relative to your Pin Sun stuff (?) Or the Tang Yik / long pole studies?

It was my Tang Yik Weng Chun studies with Sifu Michael Tang.

 

[LFJ]

But I had more than one native speaker in Hong Kong tell me that this is not true. They said that "Wing" is indeed pronounced just as it would be in "chicken wing." However, "Weng" is pronounced like the "ea" in "mung bean." So there is a slight difference.

I can't tell by your accent where you're from in the States. Lower East Coast maybe? To me both these English words have the same long E sound. I have to try hard to make out any slight difference.

These are pronounced "Yong" in Mandarin. I'm told there are more tones in Cantonese than in Mandarin. So maybe this is where the idea that they are pronounced exactly the same came from...maybe they are the same in Mandarin, but slightly different in Cantonese.

It should just be a tone difference in Cantonese, not actually a different vowel. One starts low-mid and rises slightly to mid. The other stays level at low-mid.

I guess, the different tones may give the illusion of a slightly different vowel sound if you haven't trained your ears for them, and native speakers who aren't linguists usually can't explain very accurately what to them is just a natural phenomenon they never thought about explaining before.

永 wing5
咏 wing6

In Mandarin, they are exactly the same sound (yong), both with a 3rd tone, dipping low then rising.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

They said that "Wing" is indeed pronounced just as it would be in "chicken wing." However, "Weng" is pronounced like the "ea" in "mung bean."

Like LFJ, I pronounce the "i" in "wing" with the same vowel sound as the "ea" in "bean." Must be a regionalism to have them different.

 

[mograph]

Like LFJ, I pronounce the "i" in "wing" with the same vowel sound as the "ea" in "bean."

The latter has a slightly higher tongue position, doesn't it?

Chart with audio:
IPA vowel chart with audio - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[KPM]

Like LFJ, I pronounce the "i" in "wing" with the same vowel sound as the "ea" in "bean." Must be a regionalism to have them different.

How about the "ee" in "seen" ...as in..."the motion was seen by the runner"? To me, it is pronounced the same way as the "ea" in "bean" and the "e" in "weng."

 

[LFJ]

I've never seen wings on a bean, and I hear the same E times three.

 

[guy b.]

Wow, Americans talk funny

 

[Marnetmar]

Since when are the "ee" sounds in "seen," "wing," and "bean" pronounced differently from each other? I'm so confused.

 

[guy b.]

Since when are the "ee" sounds in "seen," "wing," and "bean" pronounced differently from each other? I'm so confused.

Hint: there isn't an "ee" sound in wing; there is an "i" sound.

 

[Tez3]

You should hear the Japanese commands as spoken by people with British regional accents, we've had Japanese nationals totally bemused before now.

 

[KPM]

The difference between "Wing" and "Weng" is the same as the difference between "sing" and "seen" or "cling" and "clean." The "I" has just a bit of a higher tone.

 

[guy b.]

The difference between "Wing" and "Weng" is the same as the difference between "sing" and "seen" or "cling" and "clean." The "I" has just a bit of a higher tone.

You have lost me. With my accent those words don't sound anything like each other. First has an "i" sound, second has an "ee" sound. Very different.

For sing I don't say seeng, I say sing. With an "i" sound

 

[KPM]

Are you not following? I said they were different, not the same.

 

[mograph]

Boy, you guys can argue about anything.

 

[Vajramusti]

Boy, you guys can argue about anything.

And usually its boring.

 

[Danny T]

LOL...guy b and KPM are agreeing and yet that becomes an argument as well...

 

[LFJ]

Can somebody upload or link a voice recording showing how they are different?

The only difference between cling and clean I hear is a G on the end or not.

In any case, wing5 and wing6 in Cantonese have the exact same vowel sound. The first word just rises slightly as you say it more like a question and the other stays low and flat. The vowel doesn't change.

 

[mograph]

The only difference between cling and clean I hear is a G on the end or not.

Lower the back of your your tongue a little on "cling" and/or raise it a little on "clean."