- Thread Starter
- #21
Amazing, isn't it! These guys will argue about anything! And Guy once again demonstrates his inability to follow what a thread is actually saying!
Wing vs. Weng
- Thread starter KPM
- Start date
Amazing, isn't it! These guys will argue about anything! And Guy once again demonstrates his inability to follow what a thread is actually saying!
- Thread Starter
- #22
Compare:
Definition of BRING
to:
Definition of BEAN
or compare:
Definition of CLING
to:
Definition of CLEAN
Definition of BRING
to:
Definition of BEAN
or compare:
Definition of CLING
to:
Definition of CLEAN
- Thread Starter
- #23
None of you have to follow anything you feel is boring. Commenting on it doesn't help anything either. If you have nothing to contribute to the thread, why post? Just ignore the thread and go on.
Comparing the audio for bring to cling, they are different. I pronounce cling the way the male voice pronounced bring, that is with a long e, not a short i.
I hear the vowel in cling sounding like the word "in" there (short i), but that sounds very strange and nasally and is definitely not so-called Standard or General American English.
Saying nothing apart from the odd snarky comment is also boring Joy. KPM is correct,if you don't find it interesting, just don't comment.
No, I am just saying that the following comparison doesn't make sense in terms of my accent:
For me the difference between those words is not an "i" with a higher tone as you say, and so not sure what you mean. It isn't that I can't follow what you are trying to say, just that your comparison doesn't hold with some accents. I have a regional British accent.
Brum, Scouse, Geordie? Not estuary English?
I can totally understand that. Here's a question: Do you also speak whatever the standard "newscaster" version of British English is? You know. like on the BBC? Most educated Americans (not really an oxymoron) who were raised speaking a regional dialect can code-switch and speak standard American English when it suits them. You see this a lot with politicians who may speak heavily accented English to their local constituents and yet speak Standard American (Yankee) English to their peers in Washington. Bill Clinton was known for this. George W. Bush, on the other hand.... er, not so much.
As for myself, I routinely code switch between Standard American and WR (Western Redneck). Also, I find that listening to the BBC presents no problems of comprehension although I cannot speak in any British, Scottish, or Irish accent ...at least when sober. Once in my college days I got drunk in an Irish bar in Boston and friends tell me that I was apparently channeling my Great Grampa Murphy, and for the first time in my life, told jokes that were actually funny. But I have no clear memory of the occasion.
Here we tend to just speak with whatever accent we have, I've never heard anyone speak 'posh' as well as having a regional accent. Most people would be very upset if you tried to change their accents. Think Sean Bean for example or Michael Caine.
I think regional accents come into the various languages used in martial arts a lot, it confuse things a lot. I've been hard put to understand common Japanese words when used by some people with accents. It can make training a little difficult sometimes.
I think regional accents come into the various languages used in martial arts a lot, it confuse things a lot. I've been hard put to understand common Japanese words when used by some people with accents. It can make training a little difficult sometimes.
- Thread Starter
- #30
Ok. Fair enough. I just used those as examples of the difference I was hearing between "Wing Chun" and "Weng Chun" when my Sifu pronounced them. And the pronunciation examples I provided from Webster are applicable and appropriate to the differences I was trying to point out, whether you yourself pronounce those words that way or not. Again, they are just examples. Why does everything have to be an argument?
Ok, as a demonstration of some British accents/dialects, and to defuse any arguments I'm posting up a funny ( well to the Brits lol) video of one of our comedians Jimmy Carr teaching how to do accents/dialects. It's not too long so may give people a breather and not start arguing again. You can imagine martial arts instructions given in their native language but spoken with these accents
dudewingchun
Blue Belt
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- Thread Starter
- #33
Again, don't worry about whether the computer is pronouncing the words the same way that you pronounce the words. Focus on the difference between the two examples. That is the difference I am hearing between "Wing" and "Weng." And remember, people have long said that Chinese is a difficult language because of subtle differences in pronunciation of words.
I think what's happening is that as a speaker of a non-tonal language you are trying to attribute the difference you're hearing to a vowel change rather than a change in tone.
Here you can listen to the two words. The vowel remains the same, but the tonal change is quite clear.
咏 Wing6 : low-mid & level.
永 Wing5 : low-mid rising to mid.
- Thread Starter
- #35
Perhaps you are right! I'm no linguist, but it seems to me that in English the difference in how some vowels and vowel combinations are pronounced are simply a tonal change. For instance, the difference between "Wing" and "Win." In this case for them to be the same, the second one would be pronounced like "Ween." But it isn't, it is pronounced like "When."
But anyway, thanks for the links to the Chinese site! Those links support the idea that "Wing" and "Weng" are indeed pronounced differently and not the same.....as I have heard said for a number of years now.
But anyway, thanks for the links to the Chinese site! Those links support the idea that "Wing" and "Weng" are indeed pronounced differently and not the same.....as I have heard said for a number of years now.
God, I love this place. Learn all kinds of things.
As for accents and linguistics, I'm from New England, when I watch some tv shows from England, like my favorite, Luther, I have to put on closed captions because we here in New England all know the English don't speak English, they speak British. (I'm kidding, Tez) Youse guys know that, though.
If I run into my old Wing Chun friends I'll have to ask them what they kicked my butt with, Wing or Weng.
As for accents and linguistics, I'm from New England, when I watch some tv shows from England, like my favorite, Luther, I have to put on closed captions because we here in New England all know the English don't speak English, they speak British. (I'm kidding, Tez) Youse guys know that, though.
If I run into my old Wing Chun friends I'll have to ask them what they kicked my butt with, Wing or Weng.
I think what's happening is that as a speaker of a non-tonal language you are trying to attribute the difference you're hearing to a vowel change rather than a change in tone.
Here you can listen to the two words. The vowel remains the same, but the tonal change is quite clear.
咏 Wing6 : low-mid & level.
永 Wing5 : low-mid rising to mid.
LFJ -- Thanks so much for this site. I believe you make an excellent point regarding how non-speakers of a tonal language may attribute tonal changes to vowel changes. I also found myself a little confused by some of KPM's descriptions.
Even though KPM and I are apparently speakers of the same dialect, i.e. Standard American English, there is still considerable regional variation in the pronunciation of certain vowels. Since these variations are not phonemic, we tend to ignore them, but they would affect the way we hear and interpret sounds in other languages.
mograph
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" ... 's not roight. Ner, somthin's not roight."
Vajramusti
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sumpn fer shore
Guess you had to be there....Ok, as a demonstration of some British accents/dialects, and to defuse any arguments I'm posting up a funny ( well to the Brits lol) video of one of our comedians Jimmy Carr teaching how to do accents/dialects. It's not too long so may give people a breather and not start arguing again. You can imagine martial arts instructions given in their native language but spoken with these accents
