Wing Tsun or Wing Tsjun?

[Thapir]

Greetings,

first of all hello..I'm new to this forum, but luckily not to Martial Arts. I've (only) been training Jodo for about one year, but I feel it's time for me to pick up another Martial Art. One which puts its emphasize on more 'realistic' fighting than, the Art of weapon-wielding.

I've been searching, mailing, ... around for quite some time now. And I'm mainly interested in the great Martial Art Wing Chun. In September I'll be moving to some other City for my school, and so I started looking around for a club over there. And this is where my issue comes from.

I've found two 'different' schools, where one is the well-known Wing Tsun Leung Ting system school. Where Sifu Krause is the Head at our province.

The other school, is called Wing Tsjun and comes from Allan Wong's "departement" and bigger organisation called Martial Arts International (www.wingtsjun.com).

Now I was wondering if any of you has any experience with both these schools. Because the price for both is the same when taking 2 trainings/Week. Even though, the Leung Ting school "gives" 1 hour more training for the same price I do have to travel to a city nearby for the second training. Which ofcourse will costs some aswell, especially as I do not own my own car just yet.

I'm going to check out both school-trainings in about two weeks, but it would be nice if I could get a hold already about what the difference would be.

I'm sorry for this newbie question, but I love to be as well-informed as I can possibly be. And since I can't go out try-out for the upcoming 2 weeks just yet, I've decided to gather as much info as possible already!

Thanks already,

 

[Thapir]

Greetings,

first of all hello..I'm new to this forum, but luckily not to Martial Arts. I've (only) been training Jodo for about one year, but I feel it's time for me to pick up another Martial Art. One which puts its emphasize on more 'realistic' fighting than, the Art of weapon-wielding.

I've been searching, mailing, ... around for quite some time now. And I'm mainly interested in the great Martial Art Wing Chun. In September I'll be moving to some other City for my school, and so I started looking around for a club over there. And this is where my issue comes from.

I've found two 'different' schools, where one is the well-known Wing Tsun Leung Ting system school. Where Sifu Krause is the Head at our province.

The other school, is called Wing Tsjun and comes from Allan Wong's "departement" and bigger organisation called Martial Arts International (www.wingtsjun.com).

Now I was wondering if any of you has any experience with both these schools. Because the price for both is the same when taking 2 trainings/Week. Even though, the Leung Ting school "gives" 1 hour more training for the same price I do have to travel to a city nearby for the second training. Which ofcourse will costs some aswell, especially as I do not own my own car just yet.

I'm going to check out both school-trainings in about two weeks, but it would be nice if I could get a hold already about what the difference would be.

I'm sorry for this newbie question, but I love to be as well-informed as I can possibly be. And since I can't go out try-out for the upcoming 2 weeks just yet, I've decided to gather as much info as possible already!

Thanks already,

I made an important typo, I ment Allan Fong!

Cheers,

 

[yak sao]

Leung Ting started teaching Wing Tsun in Hong Kong back in the 60's. To differentiate his method from other Wing Chun/Ving Tsun clans, he chose that particular spelling. Also, there's a story that "WC" is the abbreviation for water closet and he didn't want his style to be thought of as the bathroom style.
Allan Fong was a student of Leung Ting, in fact he was with Leung Ting when the system was brought to Germany in the 70's. This became the start of Keith Kernspecht's EWTO organization.
Mr Fong moved to the USA from HK in 1983, in 1989, I believe, he left LT's organization to teach on his own.
LT is very much the businessman, and his spelling of WingTsun is copywrited. But you'll see that many of LT/KK students keep the WT initials to show their link to this branch. ( Emin Boztepe : Wing Tzun,
Sergio Iadorola : Wing Tjun, Allan Fong/ Thommy Bohlig: Wing Tsjun.)
Both Sergio and Thommy Bohlig were former students of the EWTO and left the organization to train with Allan Fong.
Bottom line, if you're wanting to train the WT system then I think you will be happy whichever route you take. Both are quality instructors teaching sound martial arts.
.Good Luck.

 

[Thapir]

Leung Ting started teaching Wing Tsun in Hong Kong back in the 60's. To differentiate his method from other Wing Chun/Ving Tsun clans, he chose that particular spelling. Also, there's a story that "WC" is the abbreviation for water closet and he didn't want his style to be thought of as the bathroom style.
Allan Fong was a student of Leung Ting, in fact he was with Leung Ting when the system was brought to Germany in the 70's. This became the start of Keith Kernspecht's EWTO organization.
Mr Fong moved to the USA from HK in 1983, in 1989, I believe, he left LT's organization to teach on his own.
LT is very much the businessman, and his spelling of WingTsun is copywrited. But you'll see that many of LT/KK students keep the WT initials to show their link to this branch. ( Emin Boztepe : Wing Tzun,
Sergio Iadorola : Wing Tjun, Allan Fong/ Thommy Bohlig: Wing Tsjun.)
Both Sergio and Thommy Bohlig were former students of the EWTO and left the organization to train with Allan Fong.
Bottom line, if you're wanting to train the WT system then I think you will be happy whichever route you take. Both are quality instructors teaching sound martial arts.
.Good Luck.

Thanks! I'm going to check both out, to see which sifu (+ his way of giving training) works the best for me. I just thought that there could be some big difference between them (the reason for splitting up or so..).

I'll keep it up to date!

 

[geezer]

Leung Ting is very much the businessman, and his spelling of WingTsun is copywrited.

Actually this is what you are supposed to believe. But, in the USA at least, it is not copyrighted. I got this from an inside source...the guy that hired the lawyer for LT. But since Emin and almost everone else believes this copyright bluff, people have become very creative at inventing new ways to spell WT! My favorite would be Wing Txun... I think it has a sort of Mayan look, and since I'm an ex-WT man, the X would be perfect!

 

[yak sao]

Actually this is what you are supposed to believe. But, in the USA at least, it is not copyrighted. I got this from an inside source...the guy that hired the lawyer for LT. But since Emin and almost everone else believes this copyright bluff, people have become very creative at inventing new ways to spell WT! My favorite would be Wing Txun... I think it has a sort of Mayan look, and since I'm an ex-WT man, the X would be perfect!

I have noticed that LT spells his all as one word.Is that what is copywrited? Also that J Webb and Ingo Weigel (may be wrong on the last name) continue to spell it as Wing Tsun here in the states. It always bothered me how LT himself said he felt that spelling was a proper romanization of the chinese then somehow is able to copywrite it?????
BTW the Wing txun spelling is a new one for me

 

[geezer]

..It always bothered me how LT himself said he felt that spelling was a proper romanization of the chinese then somehow is able to copywrite it?????

I think the one-word version is just to distinguish LT's organization from splinter groups. But you are exactly right about trying to copyright the name. If it is a correct romanization of a long established martial art, then you can't copyright it. The best LT can do is include his own name, since that is protected.

BTW the Wing txun spelling is a new one for me

New? I hope so, since I made it up. It would really bother me if somebody else was already a grandmaster of that! Worse, if they'd already copyrighted it. LOL

 

[yak sao]

You may think you made it up. Check out you tube. There's a guy there named Luigi Rossi, obviously an EWTO offshoot, doing wing tXun.

OK, so what other possible spellings could we use?
Wing Tbun, nah, Wing Tcun.....possible, Wing Tdun...nope.....This could be a great party game.

 

[profesormental]

Greetings.

In the end, the punch you give someone to defend yourself won't leave a trademark!

Anyway, I was thinking about the new nickname given to me by Mr. Geezer.

I could write King Night Owl,

or King Knight Owl.

In the end both are cool, and essentially the sam ting.

Juan Mercado-Robles
King Night Owl and/or King Knight Owl

 

[Thapir]

Greetings.

In the end, the punch you give someone to defend yourself won't leave a trademark!

Anyway, I was thinking about the new nickname given to me by Mr. Geezer.

I could write King Night Owl,

or King Knight Owl.

In the end both are cool, and essentially the sam ting.

Juan Mercado-Robles
King Night Owl and/or King Knight Owl

I understand that you probably get so many questions about this, but I asked this mainly because of the thought that there are *huge* difference between the two Schools (why else should they split up in my opinion). But now that I know the answer, I don't care and will be checking them out, knowing that the difference isn't that big.

Thapir,

 

[zepedawingchun]

OK, so what other possible spellings could we use?
Wing Tbun, nah, Wing Tcun.....possible, Wing Tdun...nope.....This could be a great party game.

How about 'Wing Jun' or 'Xin Chun' or 'Xin Jun' or 'Ving Jun'.

 

[geezer]

You may think you made it up. Check out you tube. There's a guy there named Luigi Rossi, obviously an EWTO offshoot, doing wing tXun.

Man that sucks. I came up with that "Txun" thing back in '07. Now I find out that Luigi is already using it. Well those Italians are known for their sense of style. And it looks like he's another WT "rebel", judging from the logo with the vertical fist in the triangle. Now that maybe copyright infringement. It's very similar to a logo with a WT fist in a triangle that I believe Leung Ting did succed in getting copyrighted (like anybody really cares?).

OK, so what other possible spellings could we use?

I suppose you could go with Wing Tshun since that's the way it sounded to me when Leung Ting pronounced it. But you better look online first. If Luigi's using Wing Txun, Mario's probably got this one wrapped up too.

I'm going to go with Mexican versions, since we have a huge Latino population down here. How about Huing Chun o, a lo mejor, Guintzon. Orale, eso me cae bien, guey. It may not have the initials "WT" but at least nobody will copy me!

 

[dungeonworks]

Good grief! Another spelling of WVTSUING CHTSXUN??? Holy Canolli! How is a guy supposed to Google around for schools in his area with all of this??? :xtrmshock:lol:

 

[MattB]

Hey
just a side note in maderian pin yin spelling its yong chun, and some Wing Tsun guys in Germany would say that WT is different from WC. Something bout it being closer to What Ip Man taught or somthing like that.

 

[geezer]

Hey
just a side note in maderian pin yin spelling its yong chun, and some Wing Tsun guys in Germany would say that WT is different from WC. Something bout it being closer to What Ip Man taught or somthing like that.

In my opinion WT is indeed different from WC. WT is Leung Ting"s particular take on the system and has certain distinct characteristics regarding stance, technique and training methods. WC is generic and can refer to any of the other versions, so it varies a lot in approach.

As far as whose WC/VT/WT is closer to what Ip (Yip) Man taught at any given point, or whose is "best", ...well, I'm not touching that. In fact, I don't care. I just like what I'm involved in now. And I have friends in different groups who are also very content.

 

[MattB]

I know right. Thats why I hate WC froums sometimes cause everybody gets caught up in the politics. I have had the luck to travel and see different branches of WC in action.

 

[Thapir]

Greetings,

I got another questions but since this is my topic I better keep it in this thread.

Is there any difference between the different lineages about the membershipcosts? Since the two schools I've taken info on are (in comparison to other MA's) quite expensive. Is this something which has to do with the lineage (Leung Ting one), or in general that Wing Chun is quite expensive?

Thanks,

 

[Tensei85]

Hey
just a side note in maderian pin yin spelling its yong chun, and some Wing Tsun guys in Germany would say that WT is different from WC. Something bout it being closer to What Ip Man taught or somthing like that.

Personally I think each system of Wing Chun varies a bit, so not one system is the exact same as the other. And sometimes this changes from Sifu to Sifu as well, as they've found different elements that they would concentrate on and others they've eliminated or mutated/evolved however you want to state. And this takes place throughout the systems methods from Tek Faat, Da Faat, Bou Faat, Gerk Faat, Chi Sau Faat etc...

And then there are some that have added elements form other systems of CMA or elsewise.

But as long is it doesn't stray from the principles of Wing Chun one can't really say its right or wrong it just is.

 

[yak sao]

Greetings,

I got another questions but since this is my topic I better keep it in this thread.

Is there any difference between the different lineages about the membershipcosts? Since the two schools I've taken info on are (in comparison to other MA's) quite expensive. Is this something which has to do with the lineage (Leung Ting one), or in general that Wing Chun is quite expensive?

Thanks,

It's always been my understanding that WT/WC/VT has always been on the expensive side. For generations it was very secretive. In fact Yip Man was one of only 13 students.
As for the LT organization and its derivatives, yes they are pricey. It is also very effective martial arts training taught very systematically. So it becomes a matter of whether or not you want to shell out the money.

 

[Ken Morgan]

Hey, I just noticed this post where you say you train at jodo.

I think that brings the total people training in it here, up to two or three!!

Seitei jo or koryu jo?