Wing Chun (OC : Ouingue Choune in French) : The Long bridge

poulperadieux

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Hello,

Just a first article to share and discuss some notions I had the chance to see with people from the Leung Shen Lineage :

[h=2]Key points on Yee gee kim yeung ma :[/h]
  • Kim Sut : Internal roation of the hips, witch keeps the knees rotated inside and flexed, the apex of the patella is aligned with the big toe.
  • Lok Ma : Knee flex, they dont press inside.
    Squeeze an imaginary orange between your knees without pressing inside.
    Dont press inside, dammit !
  • Ting Yu : Retroversion of the pelvis, and then antepulsion. the feeling is a stretching on the area of the inguinal ring.
    At this point, verify you apply the first two steps, the position is now really difficult to stand, but be assured, it will get worse!
  • Ding Tao : Keep the head straight and the body erect. The tongue is glued on the palate, the shoulders sink down and a little bit forward, the chin goes a little bit backward.
    An invisible string lifts the head up from the vertex point.
    The head goes up, the body goes down, the spine get streched from both sides of the 4th lumbar area.
    Keep your eyes on the horizon, reduce your thoughts.
    If you knee trembles and you feel bad, thats really the moment to sink more ; Wait until it pass, at this point, you are working the stance.
    The general body alignement is backward but he back of the head is aligned with the back of the heels because af the knee flexion.
  • Mai Jiang : Press the elbow inside and backward, supination and ascension of the forearm, the wrist is aligned with the ulnas direction. No contact with the thorax.
    竄 Turtle back 罈 : witch means an horizontal state, you dont want a kyphosis on the dorsal area.
    The sternum empty itself, breathe with the nose and with the belly, in a traditionnal or reverse way.
    Shoulders down and slightly forward, elbow try to squeeze lightely behind your back, shoulder blades are glued on the rib cage.
    Fist are closed, never squeeze the fingers but try to kiss your pinkie with your thumb.
This basic stance helps to discover Niem lik, synchronisation of action and intent in the Siu Lim tao, this linking energy builds the long bridge inside the Wing chun guy and than helps to find the bridge with the opponent as introduced in the Chum kiu, the second form.

To go deeper :

An article I wrote on the long bridge :

http://poulperadieux.com/2012/06/03...e-bridge-chercher-le-pont-seeking-the-bridge/

Niem Lik by TST, 3rd student of Yip man :

http://poulperadieux.com/2011/12/26/niem-lik/


feel free to debate or to ask question on the subject.
 

Eric_H

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So what strategy to you use to apply long bridge? How do you stay and finish at long bridge? How do you transition from long to short?
 
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poulperadieux

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Hello,

As I start to explain here :
http://poulperadieux.com/2012/06/26/chi-in-wing-chun-part-1-and-2-physical-aspects/

Long Bridge energy is not really a strategy, it's more a state of awareness of the connexion of the body and the mind, what I think TST calls "niem lik".

THe strategy to discover the long bridge is proper form in the legs, than correct visualisation training, the intention you make in your moves.

For example, in the last saam pai fut in the end of the form, just before the bong sao, if no one says to you that when you go palm up than you do jum sao, you must, not only copy the move, but also visualize a constant forward spiral, you miss the move entirely, and it's purpose.

Your move will be palm up, and then you will rotate the joints of the forearm to present the edge, you will miss the forward pressure you get when you squeeze the articulations and the muscles in a constant forward spiral, and that without moving an inch.

Some people call it internal work, some call it internal energy.

For me, it's moving the basic activation of the muscles, being ready in the proper way without movement to be seen from the outside.

That can only be worked with visualisation because the brain is able to activate specific groups of muscles if trained... Niem lik.


So, when you have long bridge, witch is cultivated everyday in the way you do your form, the most difficult thing is not to turn it on, but to switch it of, it becomes a habit, it becomes part of how you move.

Than over that, you can apply any strategy you like.

For your last question, when you work the long bridge, the tansition from the short to the long distance must be felt, from your sensations, and from the guy who test it by touching you point of view, continuous.


Did I answered your questions?
 

Eric_H

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poulperadieux,You did answer my questions, I became hopeful for a second there was another WC branch out there with Long Bridge training similar to my own, but it seems you are taking a different approach to it than my school does. From what I gather you consider long bridge training equivalent to a form of chi gung to connect structure to the dantien?

For us we consider the Long Bridge (Cheurn Kiu) to be the basic on engagement, using 3 time zones (Hung Fa Yi's Saam Sing Jong concept) and Kiu Sao leverage points (wrist, 1/2 point and elbow) for directing energy through leverage. Should have some videos out on it soon for further discussion. Do you have any videos on your approach?


edit: font style got all messed up
 
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poulperadieux

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poulperadieux,You did answer my questions, I became hopeful for a second there was another WC branch out there with Long Bridge training similar to my own, but it seems you are taking a different approach to it than my school does. From what I gather you consider long bridge training equivalent to a form of chi gung to connect structure to the dantien?

For us we consider the Long Bridge (Cheurn Kiu) to be the basic on engagement, using 3 time zones (Hung Fa Yi's Saam Sing Jong concept) and Kiu Sao leverage points (wrist, 1/2 point and elbow) for directing energy through leverage. Should have some videos out on it soon for further discussion. Do you have any videos on your approach?


edit: font style got all messed up


Hello.

I consider Long bridge energy to be, at first, a way to connect any point of your body with the ground and a way to use the bones, articulations and muscles like a leverage to redirect force and to express our own with the less loss of energy as the structure sustains itself by correct alignement at every momentum of the move.

I don't use the dantien in Wing Chun as I use it in Wing Chun.

Or something like that.

And than, with proper internal Bridge, you can consider different bridges for different distances, that are worked in sparring or in the wooden dummy.

I wrote an article about the two bridges here :

http://poulperadieux.com/2012/06/03...e-bridge-chercher-le-pont-seeking-the-bridge/

The two aspects is what I call :
- Building the bridge
- Seeking the bridge

Is what you call : "Hung Fa Yi's Saam Sing Jong concept" is the different lenght of bridges in the mook jong practice?
As for the kiu sao, I don't limit my leverage possibilities to the forearm region.


I have tons of vid矇os on my youtube channel ! And articles on them in english on my website.
But mostly in French.

Tend to make them in English though, discussion are more lively in English, French tend to be blocked in school wars and secrets.

By the Way, who do you work with?
 

Eric_H

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I consider Long bridge energy to be, at first, a way to connect any point of your body with the ground and a way to use the bones, articulations and muscles like a leverage to redirect force and to express our own with the less loss of energy as the structure sustains itself by correct alignement at every momentum of the move.

I may not be following you correctly, but if I am, in my school we refer to this as "structural energy." It's where you connect the alignment of your bones to have a form of "smart energy" - power through alignment instead of muscular force. Sound similar to you, or am I missing the point?


Is what you call : "Hung Fa Yi's Saam Sing Jong concept" is the different lenght of bridges in the mook jong practice?
As for the kiu sao, I don't limit my leverage possibilities to the forearm region.


It's not exactly about length, it's a way of breaking down space. The best way in layman's terms that I can put it, is for long bridge specifically (there are different ways to express saam sing jong) it's the way of expressing acros the left, center and right time-zones. When expressed the three options are for centerline, inside-to-outside and outside-to-inside engagement. We focus on those three arm leverage points because when you play longer range you don't have access to the same leverage options as short bridge does (using long bridge strategy instead of two-line defense as a example).


I have tons of vid矇os on my youtube channel ! And articles on them in english on my website.
But mostly in French.

Tend to make them in English though, discussion are more lively in English, French tend to be blocked in school wars and secrets.

By the Way, who do you work with?

I do not speak french, but will be sure to check them out when I am home! (Sadly, Youtube is blocked here at work.)

I'm a Hung Fa Yi guy, I train with GM Garrett Gee.
 
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poulperadieux

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I may not be following you correctly, but if I am, in my school we refer to this as "structural energy." It's where you connect the alignment of your bones to have a form of "smart energy" - power through alignment instead of muscular force. Sound similar to you, or am I missing the point?

Not at all. Common Graal in a lot of schools.

It's not exactly about length, it's a way of breaking down space. The best way in layman's terms that I can put it, is for long bridge specifically (there are different ways to express saam sing jong) it's the way of expressing acros the left, center and right time-zones. When expressed the three options are for centerline, inside-to-outside and outside-to-inside engagement. We focus on those three arm leverage points because when you play longer range you don't have access to the same leverage options as short bridge does (using long bridge strategy instead of two-line defense as a example).

I work 4 bridges :

- Engagement : No contact, how and when you can enter and when you shouldn't.
- Long Bridge
- Middle Bridge
- Short Bridge : In that I include ultra proximity, contact, ground.


I do not speak french, but will be sure to check them out when I am home! (Sadly, Youtube is blocked here at work.)

I'm a Hung Fa Yi guy, I train with GM Garrett Gee.

Non yip man lineages tend to work long bridge energy, except from the TST and Leung Sheun lineage, these notions seems lost.
Though long bridge is common in a lot of chinese martial arts, it's usually sold as a secret in wing chun, as it was sold to me at first.
 
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