Why would anyone issue "honory rank?"

[James Kovacich]

Why would anyone issue "honorary rank" to a "living, able bodied" martial art practitioner?

To me it just dosen't make any sense. Either someone is worthy of rank or they are not. No "inbetween's." I think that if someone issues "honorary rank" and comes to regret it later. They deserve ALL of the "after affects" that they have "created for themselves."

They made their bed, now they have to lie in it.

I think in the case of honorying deceased individuals it should be up to in the individual instructor but it still does not make much sense.

 

[Bester]

I think people should test for rank, not buy, borrow or just assume it.
*shrug*
How many people jump grades because of favors they did?
How many people buy their ranks through mills and "soke" councils?

People that award honorary ranks need to realize that not everyone is honorable. Some people will suck up enough to get it, then do what they want with it.
They are scumbags, but, what can you do?

Send them an email butt kicking?

 

[ppko]

Why would anyone issue "honorary rank" to a "living, able bodied" martial art practitioner?

To me it just dosen't make any sense. Either someone is worthy of rank or they are not. No "inbetween's." I think that if someone issues "honorary rank" and comes to regret it later. They deserve ALL of the "after affects" that they have "created for themselves."

They made their bed, now they have to lie in it.

I think in the case of honorying deceased individuals it should be up to in the individual instructor but it still does not make much sense.

I agree with this statement. I know that most of the time that honorary rank is givin (at least from what I have seen) it has been givin to non-Martial Artist for there contributions to the arts, or to Martial Artist that have passed on.

 

[ppko]

I think people should test for rank, not buy, borrow or just assume it.
*shrug*
How many people jump grades because of favors they did?
How many people buy their ranks through mills and "soke" councils?

People that award honorary ranks need to realize that not everyone is honorable. Some people will suck up enough to get it, then do what they want with it.
They are scumbags, but, what can you do?

Send them an email butt kicking?

You can now buy your rank off of ebay.

 

[Jerry]

Depends on which version of "honorary" you mean. There are three I can think of.

1. Ranks which are designed to be given for things other than knowledgebase / ability to perform (such as dan rankings over 5th in most Japanese arts).

2. Ranks handed out as "legitemate" based on an existing body of knowledge, rather than formalized testing (perhaps handing out a black-belt (knowledge of the basics) to the guy that comes into your school with a 20-year background in a similar art).

3. Ranks which are not intended as legitemate, but to honor the recipient (handing out a posthumous black-belt to a student-instructor who died of cancer after years in the school).

 

[clfsean]

Several reasons...

1) I rank you, you rank me... that way we can support each other's outrageous claims... :roll: :bs1:

2) I rank you, get a pic made with you... that way people can see I train famous people or SOCOM forces... :bs1:

3) I rank you, now go away & bother somebody else... hopefully you'll get the clue... more times than not, no clue is received by the recipient so we now have an abundance of Soke Dokey Life members with ill gotten & misunderstood certificates. Roll out the trucks of reality pills...

4) Money money money...

I'm sure I forgot one or more... please feel free to add on!

 

[Andrew Green]

To honor a person...?

Sometimes a person can do something for the organization without being a practitioner, and it can be a way of recognizing that contribution.

Let's just say a celebrity or politician of some sort where to promote a system and get it more mainstream recognition, or get a lot of people involved and training, maybe lend there name to a charity event of an organization. Basically being a big help to the organization, what is wrong with recognizing there high standing in the organization despite not being a practitioner?

 

[clfsean]

To honor a person...?

Sometimes a person can do something for the organization without being a practitioner, and it can be a way of recognizing that contribution.

Let's just say a celebrity or politician of some sort where to promote a system and get it more mainstream recognition, or get a lot of people involved and training, maybe lend there name to a charity event of an organization. Basically being a big help to the organization, what is wrong with recognizing there high standing in the organization despite not being a practitioner?

Nothing ... provided that they're not a practicing martial artists or passing themselves off as one...

Otherwise see me #2 item.

 

[James Kovacich]

Thanks guys!

 

[terryl965]

I believe no rank should be given as honorary either you did or did not earn your rank just like college degree buy them for $19.95 on e-bay with all the credintals in the world rank means nothing anymore anybody witha dime can obtain one in this world we call far.

 

[Andrew Green]

College's can give out honorary degrees....

I'm not positive, but I believe Kano awarded a few honorary ranks, and he created the system as it applies to martial arts...

 

[hammer]

Personally , all rank is really ridicules whether its a yellow belt or a blackbelt of any dan/degree,And here is why. Just have a look at the current marketing programs offered by some schools, Jeet black belt program, express black belt program, You all have seen them. Not to mention those schools that grade every three months,children as young as 6 with a black belt ,the Mcdojo's ,
Sokeships Councils, Ebay, Home study programs, you Rank me ill Rank you. Crossing Associations. Even a parent can get a black belt if they run the schools raffle. Hey why not start your own system and be at the top to begin with.The list goes on and on.

There all honoray in rank ??

Its primarily a cash cow!! or what you can do for me!!

Yes your important here's a belt . As the future unfolds this will become increasing more evident.

Anyway just my 2 cents worth
Cheers

 

[MJS]

Why would anyone issue "honorary rank" to a "living, able bodied" martial art practitioner?

To me it just dosen't make any sense. Either someone is worthy of rank or they are not. No "inbetween's." I think that if someone issues "honorary rank" and comes to regret it later. They deserve ALL of the "after affects" that they have "created for themselves."

They made their bed, now they have to lie in it.

I think in the case of honorying deceased individuals it should be up to in the individual instructor but it still does not make much sense.

I agree!! IMO, you either earn it or you don't. If I'm going to wear a rank, I want it to be a legit rank, not something that was given to me. Why not have the knowledge of the art that comes with the rank?

Mike

 

[Dronak]

To honor a person...?

Exactly. It's called "honorary" for a reason -- you haven't gone through the full set of standard trials and tribulations required to achieve it. So if you are already aware of this fact and know that it's not the same as one you earn, why complain? Just like universities can award honorary doctorates, why couldn't a MA school issue honorary black belts? AFAIK in academics, the honorary degree is issued in recognition of the person's achievements in life, work, helping society in general or perhaps the school specifically. No, they didn't earn it, but I don't think they get the same benefits that earning it does. It ought to be the same in MA. Someone who has done a lot of work promoting the style, bringing it to the public and attracting more students, might be given an honorary black belt in recognition of their work in the name of the art. I don't see anything really wrong with that. It's not like people will expect this person to be able to kick butt like someone who's actually fought their way up to a black belt degree.

Honestly, I don't see why it's a big deal. It's *honorary* and not the same as a regular degree. They're two separate things with two separate sets of benefits. I just earned a PhD; I'm not upset about people who got honorary PhDs. They haven't done what I did. I know it, they know it, everyone else knows it. People who earned their black belts are in a different group from ones who got honorary ones and can say the same thing. So where's the issue?

Edit: As far as the recipient being a '"living, able bodied" martial art practitioner', I'm not sure why that's so horrible either. The previous paragraph still applies.

 

[c2kenpo]

Story:

Man comes into train 3 days a week every week for 3 years does everything his instructors ask of him. Helps out in his community , teaches for a living, works on his own personal challenges doing nothing but attemtpting to IMPROVE himself as an individual and to make a difference in his community.

Well educated, beloved family member who had to work for everything he ever got as nothing was ever handed to him in life. Not rich monetarily rich with freindships and family.

Worked harder then any man I ever knew, to achieve the goals he set forth for himself. During that 3rd year of training Life saw fit to give him a bigger challenge to tackle then what he was already dealing with. CANCER.

For 2 more years he fought and struggled attempting to meet the goals he set forth. Trying every possible method to succeed and beat an enemy that wil yield very rarely. His love for his fellow man and family, never changed. He never came to self-loathing or pity. His love for the martial arts never waivered reading books and studying mentally what he could not physically.

When time came that he knew life was to give him a new journey he met it with more courage then I belive I have in my body. When my instructors asked if I felt an "Honorary Black Belt" was appropriate? I had no question this man showed what a BLACK BELT embodied. He may not have had the physical skills of one but he had the mental and emotional fortitude that I hope to achieve one day.

Yes, we gave him an Honorary Black Belt 4 days before he passed. His family displayed it prominently at his memorial.
And I hope to one day meet him once more and tell him how honored I was to have known him.


God Bless
Thomas Beckly RIP

:asian:

 

[James Kovacich]

Story:

Man comes into train 3 days a week every week for 3 years does everything his instructors ask of him. Helps out in his community , teaches for a living, works on his own personal challenges doing nothing but attemtpting to IMPROVE himself as an individual and to make a difference in his community.

Well educated, beloved family member who had to work for everything he ever got as nothing was ever handed to him in life. Not rich monetarily rich with freindships and family.

Worked harder then any man I ever knew, to achieve the goals he set forth for himself. During that 3rd year of training Life saw fit to give him a bigger challenge to tackle then what he was already dealing with. CANCER.

For 2 more years he fought and struggled attempting to meet the goals he set forth. Trying every possible method to succeed and beat an enemy that wil yield very rarely. His love for his fellow man and family, never changed. He never came to self-loathing or pity. His love for the martial arts never waivered reading books and studying mentally what he could not physically.

When time came that he knew life was to give him a new journey he met it with more courage then I belive I have in my body. When my instructors asked if I felt an "Honorary Black Belt" was appropriate? I had no question this man showed what a BLACK BELT embodied. He may not have had the physical skills of one but he had the mental and emotional fortitude that I hope to achieve one day.

Yes, we gave him an Honorary Black Belt 4 days before he passed. His family displayed it prominently at his memorial.
And I hope to one day meet him once more and tell him how honored I was to have known him.


God Bless
Thomas Beckly RIP

:asian:

I have to say that is truly the exception. My wife has MS and she's trained longer than any of my students but I've held her back. :asian:

 

[clfsean]

College's can give out honorary degrees....

Yep but the people that receive them are normally bright enough to know not to try to pass themselves off as a newly crowned PhD of Letters or something like that. Being exposed with as a fraud posing with bogus or honorary degrees suffers much worse than somebody on a good ol' boys Soke Dokey Board. We make fun of them sure, hopefully educate people about what they are & send them on their way. Misrepresenting educational degrees (depending on the circumstances) can bring criminal charges & civil liabilites.

I'm not positive, but I believe Kano awarded a few honorary ranks, and he created the system as it applies to martial arts...

Sure... but he was a college professor & he never called himself Soke or anything else.

 

[James Kovacich]

I agree!! IMO, you either earn it or you don't. If I'm going to wear a rank, I want it to be a legit rank, not something that was given to me. Why not have the knowledge of the art that comes with the rank?

Mike

You know, you are 1 of the "few" who are truly a positive force amongst the sometimes quite a bit of nonsense! :asian:

 

[arnisador]

It's for publicity. I don't like it, but it worked for Jhoon Rhee, Ed Parker, and others to publicize their systems.

The cases of those who are ill, and the comparison to honorary doctorates, do make sense, though.

 

[jfarnsworth]

I've noticed this thread for a while and just now decided to post for what it's worth.

The only time I witnessed an honorary black belt awarded was with my first martial arts instructor. We had a student in the school winning almost every tournament he went to. Being forms, weapons, and sparring divisions. He was the one we tried to follow to get better. He was a great guy, student, role model, beginning instructor, etc. He was 17 at the time his dad got transfered to another location due to his job. Obviously we knew that he would be able to pass the black belt test but unfortunatley he had to stop at purple. Anyway, on his last class our instructor strapped on his honorary black belt with a certificate that said "honorary" and none of us had ever questioned or thought about it since. Maybe this is what honorary is supposed to be (shrugged shoulders) maybe not. I say do what you like but on this instance I believe it was the right thing to do.
:asian: