why do people hate kata

[Andrew Green]

Wow... See I didn't even know that. What did I name my new style? What rank do I have in it? Can I be a Soke?

 

[Gene Williams]

We could call it "Andrew ryu." It rhymes, it identifies your style as personal, and would make for great marketing: " Feeling blue? Nothing to do? Bullies and muggers picking on you? What you need is "Andrew ryu." We can show you what to do, just write a check and mail it to all of us at "Andrew ryu."
You could become a Professor of MA and start a school called Andrew U. Where, of course, they teach...Andrew Ryu.:ultracool

 

[Andrew Green]

@ andrew

it's not about if kata should be the only fundamental that exists in the MA. kata is only a small portion of the equation.

I quite agree, but it is the extremists on each end that make things look bad. Those are the views that get hammered on forums, the people that think kata is the key to fighting, that not doing kata makes yo ua brawler, etc.

Not everything has to make you a better fighter to be useful, and not everything that can make you a better fighter is needed.

Kata is an optional thing, and for those that are looking at competitive fighting (kickboxing/mma/etc) it is not a good option as the movements it teaches are different then from what is required to be successful in those sports.

 

[kodo]

Unfortunately, kata is not at all what it was when it was first used. Many kata have been generalized,(eye gouges and stuff taken out). Many kata don't even portray the situation that they were originally developed for. There is a great article about this in Classical Fighting Arts magazine #9 by Charles C. Goodin, J.D.
If people see kata as just a bunch of frames, I don't blame them for lost interest.
I like it for the technique honing of my basics.

 

[Andrew Green]

If people see kata as just a bunch of frames, I don't blame them for lost interest.

I think that is a bit of a over simplification.

Doesn't matter what you see in them, or can convince people is in them, some people are just not going to like them. Same as some people don't like math, or weight training, or running, or eating healthy, or any number of other things that have good reasons to be done.

It is also true that a person can become a very good martial artist without ever doign a kata.

So it all comes down to preference, and perhaps learning styles.

 

[kroh]

Holy Resurrected Thread!

I was talking to a friend about this the other day. I really liked the question he asked in response to my answer which was very similar to the one above.

Me:... So do you see my point...?
Friend: Yeah. Very interesting. My question is, if there are so many people who know that most Kata are taught incorrectly why don't these people come forward and fix the problem?
Me: They are too busy hiding what they do for fear of being lumped in with those that are part of the problem.
Friend: Why would they do that?
Me: I can't speak for any one else. For myself, I wouldn't want some one to confuse me for the type that holds Krotty Birthday parties, wears more patches than fabric on my jacket, or feel the need to separate classes into different clubs to extort more money. When people ask me if I do martial arts...I tell them no, I knit.

Disclaimer: If you were affended by the above statement for any reason, that is all on you. It is my personal opinion and as a cantankerous bum I am entitled to it. I would rather have some one call me a pr!ck than call me a slacker.

 

[Flying Crane]

Krotty Birthday parties

:rofl:

 

[Kensai]

I agree and I've said the same things many times myself. Some people train for SD, some for weight loss, an activity outside of work, etc.



If you read further you'll notice that expands on that.

[/b]

If you really read into what hes saying, hes pretty much stating that by not having the partner IFO you to give you that resistance will effect your reaction time. How can you learn timing if nobody is standing there? You can do a tech. 1,000 times, but if you never train it with someone really trying to hit you, you'll never know if you actually got out of the way of that punch! Sure, boxers shadow box, but they also get into the ring.

Mike

We do "forms", but go after each other with pads, and sometimes, very rarely, we'll go about 70% without them. Forms, kata = Western MA shadow boxing, or the equivalent if you will.

 

[Kensai]

I think that is a bit of a over simplification.

Doesn't matter what you see in them, or can convince people is in them, some people are just not going to like them. Same as some people don't like math, or weight training, or running, or eating healthy, or any number of other things that have good reasons to be done.

It is also true that a person can become a very good martial artist without ever doign a kata.

So it all comes down to preference, and perhaps learning styles.

Bottom line stuff. Great point Andrew. :asian:

 

[kodo]

I think that is a bit of a over simplification.

Doesn't matter what you see in them, or can convince people is in them, some people are just not going to like them. Same as some people don't like math, or weight training, or running, or eating healthy, or any number of other things that have good reasons to be done.

It is also true that a person can become a very good martial artist without ever doign a kata.

So it all comes down to preference, and perhaps learning styles.

I'm not trying to make an easy group of people. I'm just saying that many people might be more interested if they new more about kata. I'm a musician, and it was required by my college to take intro to music. If I wasn't already a musician, this class would have turned me off of it for good. I'm just saying that things can be more interesting when they're understood, sometimes. Your point is good, however my statement wasn't quite as bold as you think. Sorry for the miscommunication.

 

[green meanie]

When people ask me if I do martial arts...I tell them no, I knit.

:rofl:

 

[green meanie]

Doesn't matter what you see in them, or can convince people is in them, some people are just not going to like them. Same as some people don't like math, or weight training, or running, or eating healthy, or any number of other things that have good reasons to be done.

It is also true that a person can become a very good martial artist without ever doign a kata.

So it all comes down to preference, and perhaps learning styles.

I share Andrew's sentiment in this. A person can fully appreciate the value of learning how to swim and still hate going in the water. True?
I understand what kata is and I can fully appreciate the value of it. BUT... I still don't enjoy doing it no matter how valuable a teaching and training tool it might be. That's why wrestle.

 

[karateka]

kata is a very important part of karate-do. it demonstrates technique and timing. the people who do not like kata think that its a sequence of moves that is not applicable to practical situations, however as you go into the black belt ranks you will learn to do the applications instead of the same repetitive moves.

people who are bored by katas my advice to you is: empty your mind, visualize yourself in complete darkness. then visualise a floor. if you understood your applications, visualise your opponent attacking you and with practice your kata will seem much more practical

 

[icp1775]

i think people should be open, because one style is not right for everyone. everyone is very diffrent, and will like many diffrent styles

 

[Shaun]

In any traditional art, kata is possibly the most important aspect. The arts have remained and passed down through generations as these "boring" forms. It is true many people do not study them or wish to; but they should be respected for the knowledge they contain. Just my opinion.

 

[green meanie]

kata is a very important part of karate-do. it demonstrates technique and timing. the people who do not like kata think that its a sequence of moves that is not applicable to practical situations, however as you go into the black belt ranks you will learn to do the applications instead of the same repetitive moves.

people who are bored by katas my advice to you is: empty your mind, visualize yourself in complete darkness. then visualise a floor. if you understood your applications, visualise your opponent attacking you and with practice your kata will seem much more practical

Again, I disagree. Why is it that when someone dislikes something it must be because they simply don't understand it and if only they could see the value of it they would suddenly love it? I don't enjoy practicing kata. I repeat, I know what it's for. I repeat, I fully appreciate the value of it. It is the heart and soul of Karate. I get it. I still don't like doing it and I study Jujutsu instead because of it.

And with that in mind, people who are bored by katas my advice to you is: consider the possibility that Karate just isn't for you and perhaps you'll find what you're looking for in another art. :asian:

 

[tshadowchaser]

Understanding a form (kata) is way more important then liking to do it

 

[Christina05]

I kinda have mixed feelings for katas, I used to think they were a waste of time but now that I dont use them I miss doing them.You could learn alot from katas believe it or not I guess you have to take them for what they are. so I would have to agree empty your mind, then and only then might you have a deeper understanding of why they are practical.

 

[Grenadier]

In my opinion, kata provide a way to learn the techniques, and to apply them in a controlled manner where the pace is dictated by the practitioner in an orderly manner. By learning the oyo / bunkai (interpretation), and carrying out the performance with attackers, this can provide a valuable insight for the Karate-ka.

In many (if not most) traditional systems, the kata is taught first, and once the Karate-ka has a decent level of proficiency with his techniques, then he can be trusted to apply those techniques in a different manner. Someone who has acquired this level of proficiency will generally be a cleaner fighter in the ring (from a technique standpoint). At the same time, once someone applies the techniques in kumite, then his kata get sharper as a result.

It's like a well-balanced diet; each faction compliments each other, and works together to make the other better.

 

[melj7077]

Usually because there is no percieved relevance to kata. When I first started out in martial arts I trained in a system of kenpo that had 11 forms. We also trained in specific self-defense techniques. One thing I noticed when I got more experience is that only one technique was directly related to a particular form and it was so unlikely to work that I couldn't understand its utility.

But I like kata so I explored more.

Kata is like doing your multiplication tables. You have to do them so often that eventually you can multiply numbers given to you immediately. The same is true of kata. Kata is part of what I call the Iron Triangle of basics, forms, and application/fighting. The base of the triangle is your basics and the kata or forms is one side of the traingle with application being the other side. Take any one side away and the triangle collapses.

I teach 9 kata in my system of kenpo; Pinan 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, Bassai Dai, Naihanchi, Rohai, and Saifa. All techniques that you learn for each rank directly relates to the katas you are learning at the time. I try to teach the students kata in such a way that it is relavent to their attempts to defend themselves. So far its working.

People will put up with any what as long as they know why. Instructors should keep this in mind when teaching form and maybe the hate will go away.