Why do master hold you hostage over what you've earned

[terryl965]

My question is a topic that I really believe is a problem in TKD since the early 90's. That is why do Master hold there students hostage with certification is this not America do we not have the right to pay for a service, do all the Kata's kicks, punches tournaments tutor, help instruc there students while they seat in a back room and make all the money. Then if you desire to open your own school they just won't issue your certification or as I have found out they never even sent them in to get certified so all you have is a house belt in which nobody will honor for your rank, you cannot coach instruct, or be a part of your own childern goals in life. I know from first hand the dis-honest ways of some instructors,not all but some. My main point is I'm a thrid Dan not certified by anyone that count as of AAU ustu, have a school and teach and instruct my three boys and about 21 other students, all my kids will be attending AAU national because they all qualified at tere regional meets. but I'm unable to get anybody certified without giving up the farm to these so called Master in my area. SORRY for being on a soap box with you just feed up with everything the politics are just about to give me a heart attack.The real problem is the kids that I teach seems to alway win at the tournaments is these so called master and higher get piss off because they can't beat my kids so how do I get them certified, any suggestion would be welcome as always....
God Bless America

 

[Disco]

I'm a little confused. You as the Instructor certify your own students. Very similar to being certified thru a Kwan. You reference the AAU. What certification does the AAU mandate that they have? I was under the assumption that a certification from a school was acceptable, one didn't need anything higher. But if they insist on higher recognition, do they have a listing of organizations that they will accept? It kind of sounds like they really can't do that, but politics being what thay are, anything is possible.

 

[ShaolinWolf]

Strange...That really stinks. I'm in an organization(ATA) and everything I test for, go to a tournament for, get certified for, goes to my ATA Account and shows my status. That's how it works.

I don't know what to say, other than maybe there is someone you can test in front of to certify your rank and instructor level from the AAU organization to prove your abilities and years. That's how it works at ATA. Not quite like that, but when Non-TKD MAs come in, they get tested for their knowledge and abilities. Of course they don't know the cirriculum, mainly the forms, self defense, one-steps, and weapons(whatever else), but because of their past experience(especially if they have been in an MA for more than 7-10 yrs, with proof) they get certified to an extent. Maybe not instructor level, because we have 4 levels of instructor.

Well, I hope maybe I helped some, probably not, but maybe. Hope everything works out for you, Terry.

God Bless ya

Ryan

:asian:

 

[Moo D]

This is the problem when MA's are treated as a business, the competition of someone opening a new dojang stops their certification. It is a shame but once it is treated as business, already qualified and certified instructors will see any new dojang as a threat and will close ranks, as it seems with terryl965.

I am not saying it is wrong to be a full time and successful school owner, only that it is the cause of some attitudes experienced as seen by the original thread post.

I hope that terryl965 finds harmony and has better MA's experiences.

Regards,

 

[TigerWoman]

I guess I remembered this thread from before and when you asked about other associations... Why dont you do what my master did. His former grandmaster wanted all his 4th dans to teach his schools etc. but not test his students so all fees go to the grandmaster. Well, if you have a school, its hard to make a decent income off of just tuition fees especially if you keep the tuition fees nominal enough so it is economical for the majority of people. I know some schools charge upwards of 80-100 a month--too much. So the testing fees supplement that income and are important to a school owner to keep the doors open. So if he broke with his old grandmaster and opened his own school. Then, he went to a different STATE, got a relationship with a different grandmaster, and tests there when he needs to, probably will test soon for 6th, at least he mentioned it recently. Then you can sort of join his association if he is amiable to the idea but keep your own school as you wish, WTF, USTU, if I remember right.

 

[Gary Crawford]

This is one of the reasons I hate testing fees.I think testing fees poisons the whole process with greed.Don't get my wrong,I beleive an istructor should be paid well and most arn't.But I think too many instructors decide when to test students based on what bills they have to pay or what they want to buy.When you look at what some istructors charge,especially for BB or higher,it's hard not to think that.I know of many school charging $500 or more for a bb.That's just wrong.How many people would not get to test for bb if the fee wasn't so high?I say this because of the BB's I've run across with legitimate certificates that in no way deserve them.I know testing fees have become standard,but I wish someone would try adjusting their monthly fees to include the cost of certifications,the students of that school would have no doubts that they earned their belts.

 

[kwanjang]

It is unethical to do so, and it stinks of greed to hold students hostage for ANY reason. Mind you, the bills DO need to be paid, but for those who wish to go it alone the doors should be wide open.

I charge student test fees because not everyone tests. If I were to roll the fee into dues, those who do not test would pay for nothing. I see it as a user fee, and it has nothing to do with how and when I pay my bills

The problems stated are the main reason why an organization like mine can survive. In fact, it was the main reason for even starting NKMAA.

 

[Han-Mi]

I have a friend who has been stuck at second dan for years upon years in Kenpo. His instructor lost the way, and so he found another instructor that would test him. The new instructor isn't even the same style. If you must be a part of an association, then switch to another, It shouldn't take you too long to learn new forms, If any are necessary.

Or do the less popular thing, just break off. If you are as good as you say, you will have no problem finding students. The newbies don't usually care about that kinda stuff anyway.

 

[terryl965]

I have a friend who has been stuck at second dan for years upon years in Kenpo. His instructor lost the way, and so he found another instructor that would test him. The new instructor isn't even the same style. If you must be a part of an association, then switch to another, It shouldn't take you too long to learn new forms, If any are necessary.

Or do the less popular thing, just break off. If you are as good as you say, you will have no problem finding students. The newbies don't usually care about that kinda stuff anyway.

I did break off doing ok with my school, the problem lies with not having a 4th, but soon will testing this summer, I'm copable of during the right thing it was mainly a grip session.... Thanks for the input Han-Mi

 

[Bushi40]

You have a problem.

If you have a Korean instructor this is most always the case. In most cases if is the instreuctors practice to make sure you don't take any of his students away from him. usually, there is a 10 mile limit to open a school from your instructor. Your instructor should learn the fine arts of the martial art and lets say the art of Bushido. I hope you can solve your own problem and move forward without a bad taste in your mouth.

Note to your instructor.
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ Martial arts?????????????????

Grand Master Gene PercevaL

 

[KEritano]

Mostly Ego and power. My former instructor said he could hold your Black Belt certificate for a year before awarding it. Yet you had to pay the testing fees prior to the exam. Strange? I think so. It was simply another way for him to control his students. In reality, it is a sign of weakness on his part, because if his students trust and believe in him, they won't "just leave" right after testing. And students who do leave, have that right, especially if they have no desire to continue.

 

[Miles]

You have a problem.

If you have a Korean instructor this is most always the case.

This is a 5yr old dead thread and it got re-opened with a fairly racist remark. Why?

 

[mango.man]

This is a 5yr old dead thread and it got re-opened with a fairly racist remark. Why?

I call it trolling

 

[searcher]

I call it trolling

Ditto. What is up with the reviving of all these old threads?

 

[JadeDragon3]

My question is a topic that I really believe is a problem in TKD since the early 90's. That is why do Masters hold there students hostage with certification. Is this not America? Do we not have the right to pay for a service? Do all the katas, kicks, punches, tournaments, tutor, help instruct there students while they sit in a back room and make all the money? Then if you desire to open your own school they just won't issue your certification or as I have found out,they never even sent them in to get certified so all you have is a house belt in which nobody will honor for your rank, You cannot coach or teach or be a part of your own childern's goals in life. I know from first hand the dishonest ways of some instructors,not all but some. My main point is I'm a third Dan not certified by anyone that counts as of AAU ustu, have a school and teach and instruct my three boys and about 21 other students, All my kids will be attending AAU nationals because they all qualified at there regional meets. But I'm unable to get anybody certified without giving up the farm to these so called Masters in my area. SORRY for being on a soap box with you just feed up with everything the politics are just about to give me a heart attack.The real problem is the kids that I teach seems to always win at the tournaments is these so called master and higher get piss off because they can't beat my kids. So how do I get them certified? Any suggestions would be welcome as always....God Bless America

Wow....there are a lot of mis-spelled words in that post. Not to mention a lot of grammatical errors. I tried to clean it up the best I could. Sorry, it's a pet peeve of mine.......LOL.

On to answer your question........Why do you care about certifications from organizations? What does it really mean in the long run? That you have to obide by a bunch of rules and regulations? Why would you want this? You don't need certification through some org. to teach or to compete at tournaments. There are plenty of tournament circuits to compete on that don't require you be certified through anyone.

Yes, this is an old thread, why was it even responded to after all these years?

 

[troubleenuf]

FYI
Thats what small claims court is for... If you take a test, pay for it, and pass it the certificate is yours.... An instructor cannot "hold" it. Sue the sucker and move on. Ive had to help out several students in my area who have had this done to them.

 

[jim777]

This is a 5yr old dead thread and it got re-opened with a fairly racist remark. Why?

A newbie is using the search function But, I think the remark you're mentioning isn't so much racist as a limited perspective cultural observation. Not necessarily politically correct (what cultural generalization is?) but not as nasty as something that's flat out racist.

 

[JadeDragon3]

A newbie is using the search function But, I think the remark you're mentioning isn't so much racist as a limited perspective cultural observation. Not necessarily politically correct (what cultural generalization is?) but not as nasty as something that's flat out racist.

Why is it that society finds it neccessary to be politically correct?? That is so stupid. If we say something that hurts someone elses feeling then so be it. People are tough, they can handle these things. I'm not saying go out of your way to be rude but don't candy coat things when you say something because we don't live in a candy coated world. It's ugly out there. There is rape, murder, inscest, child abuse, etc.... Saying something that is going to hurt someone's feelings is small compared to these things. Also, 15 years ago if you spanked your child for misbehaving it was discipline and punishment, now its considered child abuse. I think being politically correct makes our society weaker.

 

[terryl965]

Wow....there are a lot of mis-spelled words in that post. Not to mention a lot of grammatical errors. I tried to clean it up the best I could. Sorry, it's a pet peeve of mine.......LOL.

On to answer your question........Why do you care about certifications from organizations? What does it really mean in the long run? That you have to obide by a bunch of rules and regulations? Why would you want this? You don't need certification through some org. to teach or to compete at tournaments. There are plenty of tournament circuits to compete on that don't require you be certified through anyone.

Yes, this is an old thread, why was it even responded to after all these years?

Thanks for cleaning up a five year old post, it was made when I was angry and that is why it was so bad. If somebody new wants to visit a old thread so be it.

 

[dortiz]

Has my wife been on here...thats usually her specialty.


p.s. above comment works for thread title and Terrys last statement : )