Kicks dont seem right and Frustration

[Corporal Hicks]

Hi,
Currently I do two TKD sessions a week and I am a Blue Tag going for my Blue. I'm trying to fit time to do TKD sessions at home, I have a punch bag and a small amount of space to pratice.
However I am getting annoyed (I know it takes practice) because my turning kicks are not consistance, I cannot stay on one leg and fire off kicks, and I dont seem to be able to get enough power into them, I wear trainers which dont help but I want to train as if it was a self defence situation. What do I do? I'm getting frustated because my balance is poor and my turning kicks dont seem to have any power behind them as well as the technique seems to have gone down hill? Does anybody have a training plan I could use?
Regards
Nick

 

[Touch Of Death]

Hi,
Currently I do two TKD sessions a week and I am a Blue Tag going for my Blue. I'm trying to fit time to do TKD sessions at home, I have a punch bag and a small amount of space to pratice.
However I am getting annoyed (I know it takes practice) because my turning kicks are not consistance, I cannot stay on one leg and fire off kicks, and I dont seem to be able to get enough power into them, I wear trainers which dont help but I want to train as if it was a self defence situation. What do I do? I'm getting frustated because my balance is poor and my turning kicks dont seem to have any power behind them as well as the technique seems to have gone down hill? Does anybody have a training plan I could use?
Regards
Nick

could you describe a turning kick? I'm lost.

 

[Marginal]

A turning kick's commonly also called a round kick.

Corporal Hicks: When I was having trouble generating power with the turning kick, a black belt who was watching suggested I turn my hips over while I was kicking. (Which is basically what happens automatically when you rotate your supporting foot like you're supposed to) Went from bouncing off the breaker to going through three boards like butter.

As for balance, and multiple kicking, you might want to try working on your retraction. It should go back faster than it goes out. (Also try to kick yourself in the butt with your heel on the retraction) If that's good, check your posture. The more you're leaning back, the harder it'll be to regain your balance.

Keep practicing. If you have to, slow it down, and break the kick down into its component parts. The chamber, the kick, and the retraction. Remember to retract so that your knee stays up so you don't have to waste energy, time and balance on brinking the knee back up to proper kicking position for the next one etc. Oh, and relax. If you're too hard on yourself, you'll just get frustrated and your technique'll suffer.

 

[MJS]

Hi,
Currently I do two TKD sessions a week and I am a Blue Tag going for my Blue. I'm trying to fit time to do TKD sessions at home, I have a punch bag and a small amount of space to pratice.
However I am getting annoyed (I know it takes practice) because my turning kicks are not consistance, I cannot stay on one leg and fire off kicks, and I dont seem to be able to get enough power into them, I wear trainers which dont help but I want to train as if it was a self defence situation. What do I do? I'm getting frustated because my balance is poor and my turning kicks dont seem to have any power behind them as well as the technique seems to have gone down hill? Does anybody have a training plan I could use?
Regards
Nick

Just so we're on the same page here, and like TOD said, can you describe your turning kick? When I hear that, I think of a spinning back kick. Ok...onto your question. First off, I'd start working on your balance. Standing on one leg for a certain amount of time might help. I would then start off by doing the kick at a slow pace, making sure your tech. is good, and then worry about the speed.

You were correct when you said that it takes time. Realizing that is the first step. Like anything, over time, I'm sure it'll get better.

Mike

 

[MJS]

Marginal- Thanks for explaining the kick!

Mike

 

[Touch Of Death]

I would work the first half of your kick as a knee strike, then pop that turn.
Sean

 

[MichiganTKD]

If you are refering to a turning kick as a roundhouse kick, here are a few suggestions I have found helpful over the years:

1. Establish your balance. First, keep your body upright like a pillar. I've noticed many people, especially men, lead with their shoulders rather than staying upright. If your shoulders overextend, you will be offbalance.

2. Establish your hip-torso rotation. This is where the kick gets its circular power. From an upright position, your body should rotate 120-degree in the direction of the kick. Your supporting foot should end up facing away from the kick, and your kicking instep should be square on into the target. Additionally, your weight should be directed forward, as opposed to falling away. You will almost want to fall into the kick. This will take balance practice.

3. Bring your kicking leg up to the height of the kick. Meaning if you are doing a middle kick, your leg should be tucked behind you (hurdler's stretch) at belt level. If you are kicking head level, your leg needs to be tucked behind you as high as possible. Otherwise, your kick will be at a 45-degree angle and lose a lot of power. The more tucked in your leg is, the more power you will have, since your leg will have greater room to whip out.

4. As soon as you contact with the kick, make your whole body strong, starting from your stomach and expanding outward. Right after you make your body strong for the initial contact, relax your body.

 

[Marginal]

Turning kicks typically use ball of the foot as the striking tool.

 

[RCastillo]

I don't know what all of you may think, but this kick is also horrible for the knees. :asian:

 

[Marginal]

In what ways? I've heard it creates needless stress if you don't properly tense your striking tool, but it never struck me as a knee killer. I'd have nominated twisting kicks before turning kicks...

 

[RCastillo]

In what ways? I've heard it creates needless stress if you don't properly tense your striking tool, but it never struck me as a knee killer. I'd have nominated twisting kicks before turning kicks...

I just feel it works against the patella tendons, especially becuase of the snapping involved, but I could be wrong. :idunno:

 

[TigerWoman]

I have not heard it called a turning kick but previously stated someone said it is like a roundhouse kick (instep strikes) but is a strike with the ball of the foot. This is done as an alternate break-never heard a name for it- in testing for high blue in our school. But to get more power into the break we do it as a jumping kick to break the board which is also harder to do. MichiganTKD and Marginal both had good advice - can't add much but I have a little:

The hip turn is very important and to point your knee in the direction you want to go. If your leg extension finishes at the target there will be little power at the hit. If your knee position allows you finish past the target, that is when you will notice you are hitting harder. Using a target paddle will help with that but you need a holder. Be careful not to do the ball/foot type turning kick into a bag as I was told by the 5th dan that it will hyperextend your knee hitting a bag. The knee won't get hurt (or nearly as much) with the plain instep round kick. At least my bad knees don't suffer from round kicks. And practice, practice, practice - for focus.

 

[Marginal]

One other little thing , if you are kicking with the ball of the foot, you'll lose power and stability at impact if the heel's below the toes. You want the heel pointing above the toes to get the ideal impact surface. (Not a whole lot, the foot should still be mostly horizontal)

 

[MichiganTKD]

We always practiced the roundhouse kick with the instep, using the ball of the foot just for breaking or extreme self defense. We were told that using the instep is faster. But, each organization has their own way of doing it.

 

[Marginal]

Dunno if it's faster. I use both, and the BotF kicks tend to rebound a lot more if you hit something solid. That's the biggest difference I've noticed....

BotF is fairly standard practice in ITF style TKD as I understand it tho. Turning kicks in general are targeted 45 degrees to the side. Side turning kicks are the ones used to hit a target directly in front of you etc.

 

[TigerWoman]

Dunno if it's faster. I use both, and the BotF kicks tend to rebound a lot more if you hit something solid. That's the biggest difference I've noticed....

BotF is fairly standard practice in ITF style TKD as I understand it tho. Turning kicks in general are targeted 45 degrees to the side. Side turning kicks are the ones used to hit a target directly in front of you etc.

I agree with Michigan TKD that the round/instep kick is faster and more powerful. Especially when the leading leg is used. BotF is an acronym for?
Could you spell it out for the rest of the readers? Something that rebounds more doesn't have as much power (speed) for the follow through. Test that on a paddle. Again, hitting a bag with the ball of the foot with this "turning" kick hurts the knee - not advisable for the long run. The hit that causes a rebound is hyperextending the knee joint because of the angle.

 

[Marginal]

BotF= ball of the foot. Thought it was fairly clear since it's been oft mentioned in the given context.

Power's kind of hard to just say "There. That's way more powerful" If we were going solely by hitting power, we'd be using our shins rather than insteps etc. BotF applies force to a smaller area making its applied force greater. Instep kicks are essentially slaps. You can follow through better, but it's a weaker striking surface, and it spreads out the force more.

I'm not sure about the hyperextension theory. (Sounds more like rhetoric.) The knee has to at some point be bent beyond its range of motion for that to happen, and swinging back falls within the knee's natural range of motion. I've be more likely to hyperextend while kicking air. I've been warned not to kick with BotF on bags, but that's largely due to concerns over broken ankles etc. If you hit with a floppy, sloppy tool, you stand a very good chance of snapping the ankle, which isn't good. OTOH, if you're never supposed to hit solid targets, why do they reccommend hitting the temple and ribs etc with BotF? It's a good striking surface, but its proper delivery has to be trained, or it's worthless.

 

[TigerWoman]

Well, I would have to respectfully disagree with all except the last sentence and leave it at that.

 

[MichiganTKD]

The reason why the instep roundhouse kick is faster is due to the fact that when you execute a ball of the foot roundhouse, you tighten certain muscles in the leg that are not tightened when you execute it with your instep. As a result of tightening these muscles, your leg loses some speed as it comes around. Don't ask me to explain which muscles are tightened-I'm not sure. I do know that executing the kick with your instep utilizes the same torso rotation and chambering motion, and the kick is executed at a 90-degree angle. As a result, the kick is faster without losing any power.
And since the targets are the same (temple, jaw, stomach, ribs), the danger of hurting your instep is minimal. However, as stated previously, for showing breaking power or strong self defense, a ball of the foot RH is used. I have seen students use instep RH for power breaking though. With enough speed, accuracy, and penetration it is not usually a problem.

 

[Marginal]

I wish there was some form of quantification for "faster" and "slower" as well as "more/less powerful" as it's being thrown around in this thread. Neither kick is notably slow if it's drilled. The "Yeah, for power, use BotF for breaks and for extreme self-defense, but in all other cases... No because instep's more powerful..." is confusing at best.

Personally, I kinda expect people who do nothing but rotely say "BotF kicks are ineffective and self-damaging" to have ineffective BotF round kicks. Self-fufilling prophecy there. Kinda raises questions about all the Shotokan, Kyokushin karate, ITF etc practitioners that DO employ the kick as I described. Are they simply fools, Tigerwoman?

Next we'll be seeing robotic defenses of using only the instep for front kicks. :idunno: