Why Do I Train With Sword?

Calm Intention

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Life is very confusing, so much stress, the need to escape present day real circumstances that violate our sense of ethic and morality.
Do we pick this weapon of the past(along with its tradition), to escape and fantasize, or are we dealing with reality as it is?
We all know the chances of someone attacking with a sword or bo(or jo), are so limtied/rare to happen,, so why do we do what we do?

I say its simply discipline, and rejection of the modern worlds dis-association with the consequence of 'damage/death/results...at a distance', which happens with modern day weaponry.

The SwordsMan/Woman... puts all directly up front, and doesn't hide behind some M.O.A.B., or precision guided tactical weapon(like our chicken hawks in the White House, etc).

We understand the essence of things....we confront death.....we are the warrior!!
** except me,, because I've been voted out by this forum....of late.
 

Edmund BlackAdder

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Someone once said: "Sword is personal weapon. When slicing through a man, you get immediate feedback."

Its true. When using a blade, be it sword or knife, you must touch your enemy. Firearms allow you to kill from a distance, detached from those you strike down.

Some train, seeking the answer to the riddle of steel. A form of moving meditation, they seek the perfection of movement, timing and thought.

Some train, to preserve the traditions of the past, as knowledge lost is only regained after much pain is shared.

Some train, seeking answers to modern problems, through examining ancient answers. It is true, you are unlikely to be attacked by a mounted knight. A machete swinging madman however, does happen, with significant regularity today.

But, regardless of why one trains, for one to train well, one must respect and understand the tools they use.

Any moron can swing a stick, wave a sharpened bit of metal, or fire an arrow.
It takes training, practice, and more training for that to become stick or sword fighting, or archery.

Hanging out in your backyard, mimicking the motions one finds in a book, or a video, or a movie is not training.
It is playing. Nothing more. Often less.

** except me,, because I've been voted out by this forum....of late.
No. Your continued purposeful disregard for the educated advice and concern of those members of this forum, who already are that which you aspire to be, experienced, has set you and those like you at odds with those who have gone before.

They would like to welcome you to the circle.
They would love to see you become that which you profess to desire.
But their have little patience for play, as they take their training seriously.
They train, under experienced teachers, with learned partners, with a respect for the weapons and tools that they use, and the people they train with.
Your continued disrespect, for the art, for yourself, for your weapon, is what sets you and those on similar paths apart from the serious.

Anyone can throw a punch.
That does not make them a boxer.
Anyone can wear a belt.
That does not make them a master.
Anyone can swing a sword like object around.
That does not make them a swordsman, or the object a sword.
 

Grenadier

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Calm Intention said:
Life is very confusing, so much stress, the need to escape present day real circumstances that violate our sense of ethic and morality.

Of course. If we all lived our lives in constant, unending stress without a break, then our life expectancy numbers would be drastically cut down.

We all know the chances of someone attacking with a sword or bo(or jo), are so limtied/rare to happen,, so why do we do what we do?

Most people here aren't going to get into fights on a regular basis, and some are going to be fortunate enough, that they will rarely, if ever, have to use their knowledge of the martial arts in combat.

That being said, they'll still train in the martial arts. Why? Because it's something they enjoy, I'm guessing, and also, the other benefits come into play. For example, they have both better physical conditioning levels and mental discipline, because the martial arts gives both aspects a good workout.

Also, what one learns in kobudo training can be translated over to his empty hand training, and vice versa.


The SwordsMan/Woman... puts all directly up front, and doesn't hide behind some M.O.A.B., or precision guided tactical weapon(like our chicken hawks in the White House, etc).

This isn't really a good example, since you're basically trying to compare apples and oranges. A commander's role, regardless of era, is to issue commands. He will generally not be the one fighting up close and personal. It's no different, giving the order to send cavalry and infanty wielding long spears and swords, to charge at the enemy, than it is to issue a command to drop a laser-guided bomb.

If you want to make a comparison, you should probably think about comparing today's soldier to the soldier of the middle-ages. Even then, do they really get detached from the killing? Most likely not, since their own comrades are going to die as well, and they have to see it up front.

** except me,, because I've been voted out by this forum....of late.

Nobody has "voted you out" of this forum. All I see is that people are giving you some very good advice, and that everyone has urged you to start some sort of formal training regimen. We don't do this because we like you or dislike you; it's because your safety is at stake (swinging around stainless steel swords = potential for disaster, regardless of contact), and because you aren't doing yourself any real services by trying to self-train in an art (any martial art for that matter) that really does require experienced instruction.

Furthermore, it requires an open mind. I've seen this in empty hand training as well, where someone comes in with a pre-conceived notion of what Karate was all about after watching movies from "Samaurai Sunday" Kung Fu flicks, and tried to emulate what they saw there, thinking it was correct.

I could give a talented person in the world a fencing foil, but has no fencing experience (other than self-training), against someone who has trained in fencing for a few years, and can predict the outcome with a good bit of certainty, if they were to duel. The difference is, that the trained fighter is going to know what is right, and what is wrong, having had confirmation from an experienced teacher, while the inexperienced self-trained fellow is going to constantly be experimenting, not knowing whether his fundamentals are correct.

The trained fencer's "house" is built on a solid concrete foundation. The self-trained fencer's "house" is built on a foundation that is made out of materials that he randomly selected. Guess which house is going to survive?


CI,

I'll simply repeat what I said earlier: You have a most wonderful opportunity to study JSA at a good school. I'd strongly suggest that you at least *try* it before you dismiss it. Go there, and train with an open mind, and see if you like it.
 
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Calm Intention

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Edmund BlackAdder said:
Someone once said: "Sword is personal weapon. When slicing through a man, you get immediate feedback."

Its true. When using a blade, be it sword or knife, you must touch your enemy. Firearms allow you to kill from a distance, detached from those you strike down.

!!Some train, seeking the answer to the riddle of steel. A form of moving meditation, they seek the perfection of movement, timing and thought!!.

**No. Your continued purposeful disregard for the educated advice and concern of those members of this forum, who already are that which you aspire to be, experienced, has set you and those like you at odds with those who have gone before.

??Your continued disrespect, for the art, for yourself, for your weapon, is what sets you and those on similar paths apart from the serious.

Anyone can throw a punch.
That does not make them a boxer.
Anyone can wear a belt.
That does not make them a master.
Anyone can swing a sword like object around.
That does not make them a swordsman, or the object a sword.

Very well said EB, especially liked the part i put the !! around.

I had motive with this post, was very anxious to see some input....especially as relates to modern day warfare and its politics- and these 'pushers' behind these wars who remain so distant from the battle.

I feel the Aikido person, and Sword person, have possibly the most unique set of characteristics which define them, and along with that, I value what I would expect to be a very intelligent view/insight to todays modern problems of politics and warfare.

also:
I never claimed to be a 'swordsman'.
??I don't have 'an art' per se, so I can't be disrespecting anything at the moment.
 

monkey

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I use it to guide my thoughts of points of cuts.Threw a rare type of Tai chi like I was tought.You can gather the chi fast & the sword is like a devineing rod & lets your thought not only be seen but, with your eyes closed,feeling the wind & practice cut on hay raps. This Helps be the tool it was intened.An exstention of you & your thoughts.
 

Charles Mahan

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I believe it was Rommel who said it best. Paraphrasing here... "The winner of a bayonet fight is the last man with a bullet in his gun."
 

monkey

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I have to agree with that but,the point of question was Why train,I didnt see any possable insight to the ok-Im in the street & have a sword & he hold a gun.Now if I do state a rare & unherd of fight sceen It was Bruce Lees sword vs nunchaks.Clearly the sword is longer & no possable entry for the short wepon.If I have to refer to guns-then Ill say this.Its better to know how to use a sword & not need it then to have it & not know how to use it.Same with guns or other wepons,But, you have to admit most states dont allow gun carring,how ever to break a stick-or small item that may represent a stick/sword it the specialty of the philippinos.
 

Charles Mahan

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I don't know anyone in the traditional JSA world who trains for practical modern self defense. That's just not the point any longer.
 

Don Roley

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Edmund BlackAdder said:
Hanging out in your backyard, mimicking the motions one finds in a book, or a video, or a movie is not training.
It is playing. Nothing more. Often less.


No. Your continued purposeful disregard for the educated advice and concern of those members of this forum, who already are that which you aspire to be, experienced, has set you and those like you at odds with those who have gone before.

They would like to welcome you to the circle.
They would love to see you become that which you profess to desire.
But their have little patience for play, as they take their training seriously.
They train, under experienced teachers, with learned partners, with a respect for the weapons and tools that they use, and the people they train with.
Your continued disrespect, for the art, for yourself, for your weapon, is what sets you and those on similar paths apart from the serious.

Well put. Take a look at the following thread that was sent to me recently.

http://forums.swordforum.com/showthread.php?threadid=53083

When we see things like the photos that start on page 2, it is criminal for us to stand by and say nothing while someone talks about how they train with a sharpened blade without the benefit of real instrucion. Every says it can't happen to them until it does. Then it is too late. Those with egos so large that they think they do not need a teacher or will not suffer the same fate are not suited to the study of steel.
 

Lisa

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Don Roley said:
Well put. Take a look at the following thread that was sent to me recently.

http://forums.swordforum.com/showthread.php?threadid=53083

When we see things like the photos that start on page 2, it is criminal for us to stand by and say nothing while someone talks about how they train with a sharpened blade without the benefit of real instrucion. Every says it can't happen to them until it does. Then it is too late. Those with egos so large that they think they do not need a teacher or will not suffer the same fate are not suited to the study of steel.

I honestly can not find better words to explain myself then "HOLY CRAP"

The man they are speaking of full admitted he had no formal training and look what happened.

Anyone that "plays" without training is a few bricks short of a load, IMO
 

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Don Roley said:
Well put. Take a look at the following thread that was sent to me recently.

http://forums.swordforum.com/showthread.php?threadid=53083

When we see things like the photos that start on page 2, it is criminal for us to stand by and say nothing while someone talks about how they train with a sharpened blade without the benefit of real instrucion. Every says it can't happen to them until it does. Then it is too late. Those with egos so large that they think they do not need a teacher or will not suffer the same fate are not suited to the study of steel.
Don Rice has been referenced to time and again in this forum, but it certainly doesn't hurt to remind newcomers about his accident.

To answer the original question of this thread, I train with a sword because of its rich history and tradition. I enjoy studying a sword art that has been passed down for hundreds of years, and learning how to properly use a sword.

It is a far cry from the "duels" my brothers and I had when we were children. Although those "duels" were done with toy lightsabers (in case you haven't noticed, I *am* quite the "Star Wars" geek ;)), it was my first exposure to something remotely sword-related. From that point on, I became quite fascinated with long pointy blades, and wanted to learn how to use one for real.
 
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Lisa said:
I honestly can not find better words to explain myself then "HOLY CRAP"

The man they are speaking of full admitted he had no formal training and look what happened.

Anyone that "plays" without training is a few bricks short of a load, IMO

Anyone(trained too), can suffer an accident.
This thread created by me, keeps reverting back to the earlier threads which I deliberately jumped off because the members here couldn't truly read my comments, and kept slamming me.
Now, I have EB, who understands this threads intent, and the others just want to be antagonists by diverting the import here.

I don't see any thread similar to this one here, so let us stay on track please, and try(as hard as that is for some of you), to focus yourselves and either comment on the threads purpose, or leave please--- stop yanking on me thru some 2nd hand/3rd hand reference.

Or, just comment to EB and leave me out(if you can).
 

Don Roley

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Calm Intention said:
Anyone(trained too), can suffer an accident.

That is like saying that people who wear seatbelts can die in car wrecks as well. Or that people who don't smoke five packs of cigarettes a day sometime die of cancer.

Here is some harsh truth, unless you make the effort to go to a teacher to learn, you can't say that you train with a sword. You only play with it. I have trained with a teacher and you have not. I have trained on my own just as you have. Thus there is no experience that you have that I do not, but there are things I can speak of from experience that you can not.

Steel is a harsh discipline. If you can't bother to go to training because people on an internet forum don't nod in acceptance to what you say, then you just do not have the proper spirit. You can write on the internet all you want about how serious, manly, etc you are- but do those of us with greater experience and knowledge it just sounds like what we hear from children.

You started this thread asking why we train with the sword. What do you mean "we" Kemosabe? I go to a teacher and have faults I was not aware of having pointed out to me. You can't say that. You can't say you train with a sword. You play with one. As long as you do not try to pass yourself off as a student of the sword, there really will not be a problem. But when you try to pass yourself off as someone who can stand besides those that made the effort to put aside their ego and train under a real teacher, then don't be surprised when people react as they are.
 
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Don?
Are you deliberately obtuse?
Please re-read my comments, because I've done my best to answer about everything you question and comment on;;; this is really getting aggravating- is that your intent?
 

Don Roley

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Calm Intention said:
Don?
Are you deliberately obtuse?
Please re-read my comments, because I've done my best to answer about everything you question and comment on;;; this is really getting aggravating- is that your intent?

No. I understand what you are saying. And I know what you really mean. You don't seem to understand that when you talk about how you train with a sword it is not true. You started a thread about why people train with a sword. Since you do not go to a teacher and thus do not train with a sword, it is strange that you include yourself.

If you adopted the proper attitude for someone in your position (a person who plays with a sword and can't be bothered to go to train under a teacher) then there would be a lot less trouble around here.

If you don't like people telling you the truth, why keep trying to press the point? Those that know far more than you are not going to be converted to your way of thinking by constant posts by you.
 
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Don Roley said:
No. I understand what you are saying. And I know what you really mean. You don't seem to understand that when you talk about how you train with a sword it is not true. You started a thread about why people train with a sword.
****[b[Since you do not go to a teacher and thus do not train with a sword, it is strange that you include yourself[/b].

If you adopted the proper attitude for someone in your position (a person who plays with a sword and can't be bothered to go to train under a teacher) then there would be a lot less trouble around here.

If you don't like people telling you the truth, why keep trying to press the point? Those that know far more than you are not going to be converted to your way of thinking by constant posts by you.

If any of you(like about 90% of the respondents), 'really understood', than you would phrase yourselves different, so that is didn't appear ignorant of my own responses. And if any you 'only' take some of my mistakes in expressing myself vs. the genuine attempt to express my understanding of things, than there's a real issue at hand- and if any of you can't see that, than open your eyes and read, and stop this attack please!~!

***If I 'dont understand' Don, how come it made so much sense to get a response or two?
The intent of the post was multiple(and deliberate), and minus myself, I almost bet this thread is different from anything posted here before.

I won't do the search, because I'm convinced of what I just said.

*So far, there's only been one member who has stated(on the last thread), that I've not made the claims others here have stated that I have. At least someone can really read what's being said.
 

Don Roley

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Calm Intention said:
If any of you(like about 90% of the respondents), 'really understood', than you would phrase yourselves different, so that is didn't appear ignorant of my own responses. And if any you 'only' take some of my mistakes in expressing myself vs. the genuine attempt to express my understanding of things, than there's a real issue at hand- and if any of you can't see that, than open your eyes and read, and stop this attack please!~!

***If I 'dont understand' Don, how come it made so much sense to get a response or two?
The intent of the post was multiple(and deliberate), and minus myself, I almost bet this thread is different from anything posted here before.

I won't do the search, because I'm convinced of what I just said.

*So far, there's only been one member who has stated(on the last thread), that I've not made the claims others here have stated that I have. At least someone can really read what's being said.

If one person said something, then maybe it is a mistake.

But to say that you are right and everyone else here is wrong smacks of an ego several sizes too large.

You don't train with a sword, you play with one. When this was made clear in the last thread, you start a new one with the premis of why do we train with the sword. Thus you have set yourself up as someone who trains instead of plays.

And after I look at the photos of the guy in that sword forum thread, I can't let people believe that someone who trains with a sword would reccomend or do the things you do. If you adopt a more approriate attitude and stop trying to present yourself as a student of the sword, then the rest of us need not make it clear to everyone who may later join that you do not speak from any experience worth talking about.
 

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People don't generally carry swords around anymore. So why do we train with them? Why do we strive to perfect each tiny movement when the truth is that we'll likely never engage another human being with this weapon?

Only those who train it really understand-
 
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Don Roley said:
1.If one person said something, then maybe it is a mistake.

2.But to say that you are right and everyone else here is wrong smacks of an ego several sizes too large.

You don't train with a sword, you play with one. When this was made clear in the last thread, you start a new one with the premis of why do we train with the sword. Thus you have set yourself up as someone who trains instead of plays.

And after I look at the photos of the guy in that sword forum thread, I can't let people believe that someone who trains with a sword would reccomend or do the things you do.
If you adopt a more approriate attitude and stop trying to present yourself as a
3.student of the sword, then the rest of us need not make it clear to everyone who may later join that you do not speak from any experience worth talking about.

1.good point, can't argue with that....but i still know what i am reading
here.
2.there you go again. you don't know my ego at all, and about this 'right'
thing, where do you get that from? is this another repetitive attempt
to obfuscate my words from what i actually have said, or are you
able to differentiate? i really don't understand this continued effort
to misrepresent what i've actually said.
3.correct, i am not a student of the sword, but the intent of this thread
remains legit to its asking,, and my 'why do WE'(thereby
including myself with the true sword students), is a smaller part of a
much larger question--- but thankyou for proving to
myself that my small quanta of circumstance here, becomes the
dillution point for the rest of the discussion.
 

Don Roley

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Calm Intention said:
there you go again. you don't know my ego at all,

You are most wrong. I can see quite clearly from here what type of person you are. When you let slip your comment about being in the 80 percentile, it was a window into your soul. You backed away from it, because otherwise it would have been a problem just as you have backed away from other statements. You can tell a person by the things they write. You can especially tell what sort of person they are when things are not going their way.

And the fact remains that you wish to be counted as a person who studies the sword. You don't study the sword- you play in your backyard with one. And as long as people may read this board and think to follow your example, it is almost a civic duty to make it really really clear that you are not.

When you comment on an open forum, then you are going to get comments. And from the first post in this thread you tried carrying over the matter of how you were treated and put your spin on things. That is another glimpse into what sort of person you are.
 

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