why do I mostly see older folks when attending adult Karate class?

[GojuTommy]

Ok thanks.

There's no BS in that video. Whatever BS you think 🤔 is there is probably something else.

I just see ukemi training, and a seriously agile old dude moving like the wind.

Like, if I did nothing but scream in your face, could you do a forward roll? Right now?

How about old age? Aha! I've just given you the car keys to Aikido. Use it well, and for peaceful purposes dude.

Waving his arm and a student jogging at him falls down, or a small twitch of a staff sends multiple people falling over but ok…

 

[GojuTommy]

Ok thanks.

There's no BS in that video. Whatever BS you think 🤔 is there is probably something else.

I just see ukemi training, and a seriously agile old dude moving like the wind.

Like, if I did nothing but scream in your face, could you do a forward roll? Right now?

How about old age? Aha! I've just given you the car keys to Aikido. Use it well, and for peaceful purposes dude.

Waving his arm and a student jogging at him falls down, or a small twitch of a staf

I can only speak to what I've seen, and yes the 20-30s crowd can be seen filling out BJJ, MT, and MMA clubs, with far fewer joining the traditional white pajama martial arts crowd. I think we like to tell ourselves that they're home with their families and working their careers... and that's partially true. The problem for Karate (and my art TKD) is that the few left in that age bracket with the motivation to get out and train are mostly heading elsewhere. I have several thoughts on why this is.

In North America, MMA dominates the combat sport consciousness. You have an entire generation who grew up Watching the UFC instead of Bruce Lee or Chuck Norris. They've been told their whole lives that TMA don't work, and that you need to train only these 3 arts to be the most effective. Just listen to the commentary at the fights and it's almost always there in some fashion.

Another reason I think goes to culture. Yes, many adult males (for the sake of illustration) are career and family focused in their 20s and 30s. Those are the people who are not training anywhere for the most part. The ones left tend to be more competitive focused. They are more likely to seek out the arts focused around competition (while aligning with their belief on which ones work).

Lastly (to keep from writing a book), there's a vicious 'catch 22' that the TMAs did to themselves. By so successfully marketing to children, an association was formed in many minds that children are who they are for. Over the past 20 years I have watched the TMA classes that used to be full of young adults lose nearly all of them to BJJ etc. Now, when that rare adult who would want to take a TMA up goes looking, they see classes full of kids and teens. Then they see everyone else their age across the street training MMA or MT. It's easy math to guess which club they're more likely to try at that point.

I say all this as one of the stalwart few still trying to keep the TMAs going for adults. It's just a bit more challenging now than it was 20 years ago unfortunately.

i think the ‘busy with family or career’ in general is BS people of all ages with family, or really trying to plug their careers still have hobbies, sometimes it’s gaming, sometimes is basketball, sometimes it’s painting.
This idea that 20 and 30 years olds aren’t in MA of any sort doesn’t sit right with me. Sure there might be a few months or a year after a kid is born people might have to largely drop out of their hobbies, but the idea that large numbers of people are just not doing things because they have no spare time seems unlikely.

During a 4yr enlistment where I spent about 30months or more away from homeport and had to spend weekends on the ship at least once a month even while in homeport, and I still found time to train on my own, and still found time to go play airsoft.

 

[Oily Dragon]

Waving his arm and a student jogging at him falls down, or a small twitch of a staff sends multiple people falling over but ok…

I think you are missing the point of those demos and should watch them more closely.

He is not displaying no-touch knockdowns, he is displaying the principles of Aikido which are basic physics, typical jujutsu throws, and ukemi above all. The first student who runs at him gets basically told to fall, that's normal. And that was a nice roll too. Give it up for Aikidoka.

The part where he has everyone hold onto the staff in particular was a great example of the physics behind Aikido, Judo, etc. If I had you grab a stick and I drop it to the floor fast with weight, you're going flying dude.

If you watch the whole thing I think it's a great showcase of his actual skill which was significant for his age. I haven't seen much video of him sword training either, so thanks for that.

But I'm not aware of anything in Aikido that claims to be a no touch Qi blast. That's just not in the curriculum afaik.

 

[Barry Drennan]

Karate classes Ive attended, I tend to see mostly folks in their mid 40s upwards all the way to 70s (plus kids) but very few young adults. Is Karate more friendly for n aging body?

Pups are attracted to the glitter of MMA.

 

[Oily Dragon]

Waving his arm and a student jogging at him falls down, or a small twitch of a staf.

See my last, because I think it's just an ukemi demo (not a throwing demo), but this is what actual no touch Qi blast BS looks like.

The big difference here? No Ukemi!! (Cept for that one dude who gets thrown from 20 feet away, that was impressive).

These are all untrained idiots falling over for master. Aikido is nothing like this, not to mention, plenty of Aikidoka cross train in Judo etc and can throw you just fine. But plenty of Aikidoka who don't can't also throw and sweep just fine too.

So yeah I don't know if any legit Aikido schools out there do this sort of thing, I'd be surprised if it was even allowed (because any school that teaches no Qi crap is typically laughed at by legit lineages).

 

[mograph]

We need to consider the hobbies that are in vogue. Karate was a big deal when I was growing up, but now, you're likely to see only kids practising as one of those "let's keep the little buggers busy" activities. Hey, building model kits was mainstream (or so we thought) in the sixties, and now the vast majority of builders are middle-aged or old guys.

Here's a graph describing hobbies and activities in the US: cooking and baking is #1.

Most popular hobbies & activities in the U.S. 2023 | Statista

When it comes to the most popular hobbies in the United States, cooking & baking tops the ranking.

www.statista.com

"Sports and fitness" is near the bottom, and one doesn't have to think too hard to imagine that martial arts is probably well behind working out, basketball, softball, and other mainstream sports.

Karate just isn't popular any more, and that has nothing to do with the art. The older folks are probably acting on a desire to get involved when they were younger.

 

[mograph]

The no-touch stuff is either misrepresented or misunderstood.

Misrepresented: (I think this is obvious) the teacher thinks that he can defeat uncooperative opponents with no-touch. At some point, he started to believe that everyone responds to him the way his students do, even uncooperative martial artists. It's distressing, but not surprising, how someone (the teacher) could become so delusional. There are plenty of people out there who believe their own press.

Misunderstood: it's actually the teacher demonstrating how sensitive to his movements his students are. He's not demonstrating his defensive skill, he's demonstrating their "listening" skill, or sensitivity to observations. There's no magic implied here, and if the word Qi is used, it's used as a metaphor. He might not make all this clear to an audience, because he thinks it's obvious, and he doesn't want to embarrass the audience by suggesting that they don't see something obvious. Or he did make it clear, but it was edited out of the video. We should not always assume that the instructor is demonstrating his skill.

 

[Oily Dragon]

Karate just isn't popular any more, and that has nothing to do with the art. The older folks are probably acting on a desire to get involved when they were younger.

hmm. On the other hand Cobra Kai has been keeping Netflix alive for years. Kickin It was one of the Disney Channel's most popular series of the last ten years.

And the Broadway version of the original Karate Kid is green lit and incoming.

I'll never see the Broadway version of 36th Chamber of Shaolin, just to compare.

 

[JowGaWolf]

See my last, because I think it's just an ukemi demo (not a throwing demo), but this is what actual no touch Qi blast BS looks like.

The big difference here? No Ukemi!! (Cept for that one dude who gets thrown from 20 feet away, that was impressive).

These are all untrained idiots falling over for master. Aikido is nothing like this, not to mention, plenty of Aikidoka cross train in Judo etc and can throw you just fine. But plenty of Aikidoka who don't can't also throw and sweep just fine too.

So yeah I don't know if any legit Aikido schools out there do this sort of thing, I'd be surprised if it was even allowed (because any school that teaches no Qi crap is typically laughed at by legit lineages).

I don't know about Aikido but I know about joint locks. Resisting a joint lock is usuallthe worst thing you can do. Flowing with a joint lock buys enough time to counter. What people see as fake throws, I have always thought as a flow through so the wrist is protected. The problem however seems that the flow is too eager and it occurs even if the joint lock isn't felt. When I train joint locks I need my partner to let me know when they can tell that the lock is on the right path to successful application. In other words don't roll unless you can fill it being set. I could be wrong but that's how I generally see it. My MMA sparring partner does the same thing with me he flows with it before I can set the lock.

 

[mograph]

hmm. On the other hand Cobra Kai has been keeping Netflix alive for years. Kickin It was one of the Disney Channel's most popular series of the last ten years.

And the Broadway version of the original Karate Kid is green lit and incoming.

I'll never see the Broadway version of 36th Chamber of Shaolin, just to compare.

Well, there's a difference between karate's being popular and the nostalgia for a specific film franchise, or preference for one kid's TV show. Remember when TV detectives would practice karate in their spare time? It was seen in multiple shows, not just those two.

My point is that it's just not mainstream, even if it's more palatable than Shaolin (to western audiences) because it was mainstream: it has the residue of mainstream without being mainstream any more. They'll watch a show about it, but they won't go out and put on a gi.

 

[GojuTommy]

See my last, because I think it's just an ukemi demo (not a throwing demo), but this is what actual no touch Qi blast BS looks like.

The big difference here? No Ukemi!! (Cept for that one dude who gets thrown from 20 feet away, that was impressive).

These are all untrained idiots falling over for master. Aikido is nothing like this, not to mention, plenty of Aikidoka cross train in Judo etc and can throw you just fine. But plenty of Aikidoka who don't can't also throw and sweep just fine too.

So yeah I don't know if any legit Aikido schools out there do this sort of thing, I'd be surprised if it was even allowed (because any school that teaches no Qi crap is typically laughed at by legit lineages).

I mean it’s the same thing except he’s not using a student in this challenge

 

[Oily Dragon]

I mean it’s the same thing except he’s not using a student in this challenge

It's different because in the Aikido film, Ueshiba and his students are just showing a collection of what's in Aikido for the camera: breakfalls, rolls, throws, staff, sword, all from legit Japanese training His experience was pretty vast, he distilled decades into one single art that combined his skill at warfare with his desire for peace. But at the end he was powerful, and his students pretty graceful at falling. Ukemi is powerful. Whatever else came out of Aikido is a personal journey (have you ever watched The Walking Dead?).

The Kiai Master is a straight out delusion master because he actually threw out a $5k dollar wager for challengers.

Ueshiba would never have fallen for that sort of dumb ego trip or challenge.

He would have said "let's both strike this log with a wooden sword and see who quits first, and be friends after. go".

My man.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

We need to consider the hobbies that are in vogue. Karate was a big deal when I was growing up, but now, you're likely to see only kids practising as one of those "let's keep the little buggers busy" activities. Hey, building model kits was mainstream (or so we thought) in the sixties, and now the vast majority of builders are middle-aged or old guys.

Here's a graph describing hobbies and activities in the US: cooking and baking is #1.

Most popular hobbies & activities in the U.S. 2023 | Statista

When it comes to the most popular hobbies in the United States, cooking & baking tops the ranking.

www.statista.com

"Sports and fitness" is near the bottom, and one doesn't have to think too hard to imagine that martial arts is probably well behind working out, basketball, softball, and other mainstream sports.

Karate just isn't popular any more, and that has nothing to do with the art. The older folks are probably acting on a desire to get involved when they were younger.

Oh lord. Pardon me, but you're full of it. I mean really full of it. The kids pay the bills. The adults train karatedo. And it is a way of life.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

If you want to know why old people train karate, ask us. Man this is a lot of horse puckey.

 

[GojuTommy]

Well, there's a difference between karate's being popular and the nostalgia for a specific film franchise, or preference for one kid's TV show. Remember when TV detectives would practice karate in their spare time? It was seen in multiple shows, not just those two.

My point is that it's just not mainstream, even if it's more palatable than Shaolin (to western audiences) because it was mainstream: it has the residue of mainstream without being mainstream any more. They'll watch a show about it, but they won't go out and put on a gi.

I mean I’ve watched a lot of movies and tv shows from the 50s-80s I don’t remember a single detective show where the protagonist practiced karate. Most I recall trained judo or jujitsu (or at least that’s the name they gave for what the were supposedly doing.)
S5 of cobra kai netted 1.7 billion minute views on its premiere. It beat out the new Thor’s streaming debut.

Nielsen Streaming Top 10: ‘Cobra Kai’ Debuts at No. 1, ‘Rings of Power’ Still Edges Out ‘House of the Dragon’

Cobra Kai took the No. 1 spot on Nielsen's weekly streaming rankings, while 'The Rings of Power' beat 'House of the Dragon' for the second week in a row.

variety.com

This show isn’t just some niche nostalgia flash in the pan. The show has been popular among pretty much all age groups.

 

[GojuTommy]

It's different because in the Aikido film, Ueshiba and his students are just showing a collection of what's in Aikido for the camera: breakfalls, rolls, throws, staff, sword, all from legit Japanese training His experience was pretty vast, he distilled decades into one single art that combined his skill at warfare with his desire for peace. But at the end he was powerful, and his students pretty graceful at falling. Ukemi is powerful. Whatever else came out of Aikido is a personal journey (have you ever watched The Walking Dead?).

The Kiai Master is a straight out delusion master because he actually threw out a $5k dollar wager for challengers.

Ueshiba would never have fallen for that sort of dumb ego trip or challenge.

He would have said "let's both strike this log with a wooden sword and see who quits first, and be friends after. go".

My man.

…uh huh. Great excuse, but if he’s showing how he can knock people over without touching them, because it’s in aikido that means aikido is the origin of no touch martial arts.

 

[Oily Dragon]

…uh huh. Great excuse, but if he’s showing how he can knock people over without touching them, because it’s in aikido that means aikido is the origin of no touch martial arts.

I don't think he's showing he can knock out over people without touching them. It's a demo of his students ukemi.

Do you know any ukemi?

Aikido is the origin of no touch martial arts? How do?

 

[JowGaWolf]

This is what happens when you can't flow with a wrist lock or when you fight directly against it.. In kung fu , flowing with the lock would require footwork. In BJJ, your footwork is gone so all you are left with is fighting it directly.

So Aikido is trash? I personally don't think so. I think it suffers the same issue that Kung Fu has. People stop training Aikido through sparring. Just something to think about. Are there some Trash Aikido Practitioners out there? Of course. When you see one just ignore them and keep looking for someone who knows how to actually apply it or at the minimum someone who knows enough about the technique that they can coach you on how to apply it.