Who will impact EPAK the most in the next 10 years?

[rmcrobertson]

Of course, actual criticism is different from merely stating one's opinions.

In actual criticism, we back up our claims with precise details, explanations of disagreements, and documentations of the history of what we're dicsussing. We do not merely go off in general terms, then duck out of details and explanations.

For example, one possible criticism of that video lies in what would appear to be its lack of speed. This is because their training has led some to privilege speed above other considerations; others have been taught to consider speed to be relatively useless in the absence of power and control.

 

[Old Fat Kenpoka]

You know, I looked at the videos. I thought Robert did just fine. Looks like a Black Belt to me. Moves better in that clip than a whole lot of Kenpo Black Belts. Besides, it's not like he's claiming he's some Kenpo superman on some mission to prove the power of true Kenpo and save the masses from bad instruction or anything like that. Give the guy a break.

 

[Fastmover]

In actual criticism, we back up our claims with precise details, explanations of disagreements, and documentations of the history of what we're dicsussing. We do not merely go off in general terms, then duck out of details and explanations.

Robert you really crack me up!! Let me restate, if I were to level criticism about your video it would be done from my point of view.

Also I believe the video in question was done a number of years ago. I am sure that your level of movement has evolved since then???

BTW- Speed is part of the equation in evolving your motion in hopes of reaching your maximum potential.

Take Care

 

[rmcrobertson]

One can only hope that among the directions kenpo takes in the next ten years involves a greater understanding of how to criticize--to simply advance claims, provide evidence for claims, dissect and discuss histories, without the constant evasion of details and the constant adverting to personal remarks.

Or, when in doubt, one might simply learn to offer an example--and a critique--of one's own training and example-setting rather than repeatedly attacking others.

For example, my critique of that tape would begin with directly comparing it to the two previous examples--Cliff and Angela--who were, oddly, elided in the rush by some to throw a shot or two at Mr. Tatum. It is not that their movement is radically superior--in fact, what's striking is that the style is so remarkably similar in all three examples--or more legitimate. All three examples show valid self-defense within the parameters of the choreographed situation, a good understanding of basics and principles, and an excellent awareness of opponents.

However, Cliff's video does show a superior control--placement might be a better term--of opponents, and a better understanding of the showmanship necessarily involved in public demonstrations. Angela's example is to be valued for its clarity, and for its fighting spirit. Robertson's shows good-to-excellent control and power (note, for example, the strong and well-placed side kick to the opponent's throat, thrown from a kneeling position), but overall, less immersion in the moment. A kind of diffidence about the performance, if you will.

The handsword out of the chicken kick--already mentioned, one believes--exemplifies this. In part, it's a bit sloppy because the control of range is not as precise as Cliff's: the practitioner's less sure about the opponent's distance, takes an unneeded beat to size that up, and rushes the strike a bit. In part, it does not quite have Angela's fierceness--that, "tiger," quality built in kenpo at brown belt--which might have allowed for bridging that gap more accurately and quickly. A further analysis of this issue has been carried out at a level of autobiography that remains inappropriate for this forum, inasmuch as it is the writer's, his teachers', and his training partners' affair.

I don't actually expect anybody to follow that example, and provide an example and a critique of their own work. from some, I expect some more-or-less veiled insult, and probably a further attack, rather than any smidgen of the real generosity or actual fellowship that is so often given lip service.

However, that sort of self-critique is pretty much what we ought to be doing; it is the sort of example we ought to be setting for our own students, rather than trying to set up this or that little tin kenpo god.

 

[Fastmover]

often given lip service.

.

HAHAHAHA! That was funny coming from you!

Feel free to send me a PM or and e-mail.

 

[tshadowchaser]

ok now that we have discussed a few videos can we get back to Who will impact EPAK the most in the next 10 years.
Anyone can make a viedo and anyone can look good , bad, crapy, and/or overwelming on them. A viedo in no way says someone is going to be the next big player in the game. Therefor lets start nameing names again and stateing why that named person will have an impact on EPAK.

 

[rmcrobertson]

1. I prefer public discussion to be public, "Fastmover." And I more or less expected--and predicted--that sort of response, which is far easier than actual criticism, let alone examining and discussing one's own work in kenpo.

2. I repeat: we ought to be a lot more concerned over what sort of influence we're going to be, than we are with setting up this or that little tin kenpo god.

3. At this point, I believe the posts can speak for themselves, good or bad; therefore, unless something significant comes up, I believe I'll leave the thread to those who find finding the Big Kahuna important.

 

[Fastmover]

1. I prefer public discussion to be public, "Fastmover." And I more or less expected--and predicted--that sort of response, which is far easier than actual criticism, let alone examining and discussing one's own work in kenpo.
QUOTE]

Actually Robert as I stated before I was trying to be respectful to the host of the forum. If you remember I did give some actual criticism and discussed Clyde's video on Kenponet. Obviously I could go there but decided to try a different approach this time.

I also prefer to take personal differences private and resolve them in the appropriate manner. You seem to prefer public word debates.

Bla Bla Bla....round and round we go.

Really I wish you the best of luck in your Kenpo training. I am glad that you are very passionate about your direction. With that in mind it would seem we have both found someone who will personally keep us busy for at least the next 10 years.

 

[rmcrobertson]

Criticism involves making precise arguments, dissecting issues, providing exact critiques of the text being criticized, supporting one's arguments with details drawn from reality or from texts, and examining the history of an issue.

In other words, actual criticism works both synchronically (in dissecting and trying to explain the state of things as they are in a given moment of time) and diachronically (in examining the historical evolution of things as they are).

Additionally, good criticism involves self-examination and a rethinking of one's own arguments, proofs and motives.

For example, one of the critiques kenpo needs is an analysis of the reasons that when practitioners think about the future of kenpo, they think about one personality or another rather than their own practices, their own assumptions, and their own evolutions.

 

[Kenpodoc]

No, but I will call people to the floor that have no skill yet try to make everyone else feel dumb simply because they don't agree with what's being done or said.

Clyde while you are here, maybe you can help me out with something that has been bugging me for a while now. Larry Tatum moves the Parker material better than most of the other seniors that I've seen, except for maybe one or two, but here's what gets me. Why is it that Larry moves so well but none of his students can move the material anywhere near as well as he does?

You see, there are a number of people in the AKKI that, while they may not be as imposing of a force as Mr. Mills, can move the material similiar to the way he does. Granted he has alot more experience, and who knows maybe he's genetically predisposed for such an art, but he has always been interested in trying to make others move the material as well as he does, if not better (his words). He's always been caring and forthright when someone asks a good question and truly hungers for the answer. Plus, he can move the material and drop a man like no one I've ever seen before. I must say that when we compare the video of you and your buddy Robert to Mr. Tatum.... well ... I think you see where I'm going with this.

I looked up a list of Mr. Tatum's Blackbelts. Wow, you insulted a lot of good people.

Jeff

 

[Brother John]

unless something significant comes up, I believe I'll leave the thread to those who find finding the Big Kahuna important.

Did something significant happen? Guess I missed it. :idunno:

I agree with the poster that said something about getting this thread back to it's original subject, or at least something closer to it.

SO....
Those who will impact the future of Kenpo the most:
((as polled thus far))
#1: Paul Mills, AKKI.
#2: Larry Tatum, LTKKA.
#3: Other???
#4: Huk Planas.
#5: John Sepulveda.
#6: Chuck Sullivan.
#7: Mike Pick & Steve LaBounty. (a tie thus far)
#8: Tom Kelly.

This is very interesting I think. I know that you have expressed that you think it's irrelevent Robert, but I consider the people who provide leadership and exert the greatest amount of influence a very important factor in any endevor.
Here's my question to those who feel the same way:
Why have you chosen whom you have? What sort of leadership and qualities do these people have that makes them the leaders of our art? Why do we follow their lead?

For my answer:
I chose Mr. Mills for several reasons. Even though I've only had a limited number of contacts with him, each time I have spoken to him he's been exceedingly generous with his time. I know from him, and many others, that he's very busy indeed, both with the things he needs/wants to do with/for the AKKI and in his own personal/professional life. I know that he affords himself little freetime and spends a great deal of time working for the association and his students. Every year he works very hard to provide for good, ongoing education to further the understanding and ability of his students and the entire system through our two annual Las Vegas camps... seldom if ever really repeating much of anything...but providing fresh material. ((I wish to GOD that I could make 3X more of these camps than I have!!! It's sad how few I've been too...but I think things are changing for me along these lines.)) He also is still working hard to produce very good reference material for us to use. I know I'm glad to have the manuals. Though they aren't "Gospel"....they sure are a help!

Mr. Mills also works to keep the association running smoothly. He has chosen good leadership with the Board of Directors and the Regional Reps... through whom he can keep abreast of everything going on throughout the now sizeable association. I'd imagine that that's quite a trick. The influence he exerts on these other leaders flows on down to us. I can't begin to tell you how often it's been good to have a really strong and very concerned "up-line".... people even beyond your own instructor(s) who are concerned with your own growth and the growth/prosperity of your local school!!!! I wouldn't be without it!! The unity throughout the association is really like an echo of Mr. Mills' own concern for us and his passion to share his art with us and improve each members Kenpo experience. There are other people in our association that I could easily point to as good leaders, people that will make an impact on Kenpo Karate w/in the next 10 years....heck, w/in the next 10 months!! But really, if I sit back and look at it....who do THEY look to for their guidance, inspiration, instruction, material and leadershilp?? Grandmaster Paul Mills, plain and simple.

There's lots of other good reasons, not the least of which is the great, very powerful innovations that Mr. Mills has built into the AKKI system of American Kenpo that we practice and the way his bi-annual quality assurance system known as the "Camps" helps us all do well with it...
The universal weapons system!!! It's really awesome. I can't wait to really get to dig into it! The balistic-type grappling techniques that we are being shown. The offensive and defensive work. The new drills and sets. The newly codified concepts and principles that are then fleshed out for our use....etc.. I could go on and on.....
but I think I'd get accused (If I won't be already) of doing nothing more than a simple "Rah-Rah-Rah...." for 'our team'. Maybe I have. But maybe there's nothing wrong with being proud of where you are from, what you are doing and who it is that helps you and yours the most.

Thank you Mr. Mills , for all that you do. I trust that your investment of your time and passion comes back to you four-fold. :asian:

I invite ANYONE from any association, or no association, to come on in and lay out the praise that those who help us and ours out the most so richly deserve.
I think those on this list are very deserving of our thanks, just as I've thanked the one that affects me the most.

Your Brother
John

 

[rmcrobertson]

I picked Larry Tatum because he's a really good martial artist who has taught me, and a lot of others, a lot about kenpo.

 

[Doc]

I picked Larry Tatum because he's a really good martial artist who has taught me, and a lot of others, a lot about kenpo.

Best answer yet.

 

[Brother John]

I picked Larry Tatum because he's a really good martial artist who has taught me, and a lot of others, a lot about kenpo.

I agree..... very concise. Brevity is important.
ME? I gets wordy.

Your Brother
John

 

[kenpoworks]

Brother John...could you please PM me, respectfully Richard

 

[Dark Kenpo Lord]

Greetings Borther John.
Sorry it took me a while to reply to your comment but I am not on all the
time
No Kyoshi Austin is defenitly American Kenpo. As a matter of fact he worked with Paul Mill and he has a foundation called "IBBA" International Black Belt Association" His Dojos are spread all over the states but the main school is in Greenly Co.
http://www.ibbakarate.com/index.asp
http://www.unitedmartialartsalliance.com/

These two Sites will tell you more

Bob Austin is not DEFINITELY EPAK, he teaches something different. Yes, he was a Paul Mills student, but he went on his own and his promotions have been from someone not EPAK. His latest promotion to 7th is under the auspices of the IKKS, another wannabe association with a fraudulent 7th named Bob Jones of East West Kenpo Karate as the head and founder after he made up the American Wu Shen Pai Kenpo system.

DarK LorD

 

[Kenpobuff]

My opinion on who would make the greatest impact on EPAK in the next 10 years will have to be one or all of the current seniors listed in the poll or a high ranking BB of one of the seniors that are willing to breakaway and take that next daring step.

If one of these seniors are to influence EPAK it would have to be done on a national if not international level. There are too many associations and students of these associations practicing out there to accept anothers version and be impacted by it. This person, in my opinion will have to even break away from thier current teachings and venture into new territory to make this impact. I don't think it can be done from where they are now and have the influence on a large scale. For the last ten years these associations have been happy with the status quo with what they have been offering with some change but nothing earth shattering. It would take, dare I say, another Tracy brothers to make a mark on a national scale and present EPAK to a wider audience like Will and Al did for the Tracy name in the 70s.

I don't think an existing student of a current senior can make a dramatic impact due to the fact they are still under the association's "control" so to speak. Should a high ranking BB in one of these associations get the blessing, backing and support of their instructor to venture out on their own so they can sow their seed then they may have a chance to take EPAK into the future. There are some young talented BB out there that have begun to show their stuff by either videos, books or articles and that is a good start to getting recognition. This young person also will have to be diplomatic, respectful of other organizations, politically correct, and a possess a host of other characteristics that most fighting arts practioners don't have or can't find themselves tapping into.

To take EPAK into the future and have a noticable impact I would like to see that someone begin to unify the art in a way that will allow and recognize the many different associations and their versions and at the same time find a common ground that we can all call American Kenpo as GM Parker envisoned it.

So to conclude, my vote is for all the people mentioned above have the ability to impact EPAK in the next ten years. It would be interesting to see, and I think it's been talked about before, those individuals listed in the poll and a few others to come together and find that common ground I spoke of. If it's going to happen it should be done by these folks before the art and their influence on the art is lost due to attrition.

Just off the top of my little pointed head.

Kenpobuff
Steve Goemmel

 

[MisterMike]

Maybe it will be the next Jeff Speakman. In other words, the next guy to bring Kenpo to the big screen in a successful way. (OK, The Perfect Weapon was probably the only successful movie by Speakman, but it did act as a catalyst in bringing new students to Kenpo)

 

[kenpoworks]

Maybe we should all back Jeff Speakman, because if nothing else when it comes to Kenpo at the movies....well...."he's been there and done that" !
Rich

 

[Dark Kenpo Lord]

To take EPAK into the future and have a noticable impact I would like to see that someone begin to unify the art in a way that will allow and recognize the many different associations and their versions and at the same time find a common ground that we can all call American Kenpo as GM Parker envisoned it.


Just off the top of my little pointed head.

Kenpobuff
Steve Goemmel

Allow and recognize mediocrity or less in the name of unification, not today, not while I'm still breathing LOL.


DarK LorD