Who is in charge of JKD

[Wild Bill]

Everybody who has ever been remotely connected to Bruce Lee has their own JKD organization. With Linda Lee sueing Inosanto how long will it be before no one can claim JKD instructorship without her organizations approval.

The instructor I train with was certified under the JKD nucleus group and is now training to get certified under Inosanto. I am not really concerned about rank at this point in my training but one of my goals is to become an instructor.

I think training in FMA is interesting but I am more interested learning FMA techniques and adding what is useful to OJKD/Jun Fan. It seems most JKD concepts instructors seek out multiple certifications in FMA and other arts and collect techniques and drills instead of boiling things down to what is usefull.

If I want to be a professional plumber clients will expect me to be certified through a professional 0rganization. If I want to be a profesional JKD instructor where should I look if Inosanto is out?

 

[Gary Crawford]

Give this a look- www.hardcorejkd.com

 

[Troy Ostapiw/Canada]

Check out: www.kellyworden.com



Datu Kelly Worden has had many influences in various martial arts. People like Takay Kimura- (jkd, non- classical arts), Dr. Remmy Presas, (Modern Arnis), Jessie Glover; the list goes on and on. Today Datu Kelly stands on his own, but his approach is truly combative and very much follows the path of jkd.

 

[Mark Lynn]

1) Everybody who has ever been remotely connected to Bruce Lee has their own JKD organization. With Linda Lee sueing Inosanto how long will it be before no one can claim JKD instructorship without her organizations approval.

2) The instructor I train with was certified under the JKD nucleus group and is now training to get certified under Inosanto. I am not really concerned about rank at this point in my training but one of my goals is to become an instructor.

3) I think training in FMA is interesting but I am more interested learning FMA techniques and adding what is useful to OJKD/Jun Fan. It seems most JKD concepts instructors seek out multiple certifications in FMA and other arts and collect techniques and drills instead of boiling things down to what is usefull.

4) If I want to be a professional plumber clients will expect me to be certified through a professional 0rganization. If I want to be a profesional JKD instructor where should I look if Inosanto is out?

Wild Bill I added numbers to your post to address them.
1) I think you hit the nail on the head here, everyone seems to have their own JKD org. And there is debates on OJKD vs JKDC or even JKDI. And you are right about the lawsuit.

2)It's good to train under a qualified instrcutor and it's good that he is certified in one system and trying to get certified in another JKD system. Sounds like you are getting the best of both worlds Ojkd from the Nucleus and JKDC from the Inosanto lineage.

3) This may be a way to pass on multiple things/techniques to their students instead of what they find works for them. Plus the drills keep class interesting (appeal to a lot of people), the same goes for the multiple arts as well.

4) While I agree that if I was wanting a plumber I want a certified professional, however in the martial arts I might not need a certified person to teach me what I want to know. I use to think it was all about rank and such and that is what might drive students my way. Now however I believe that if I teach a good class to the student, if I can meet their needs, then they really don't care what organization I'm with or even my rank.

This past weekend I finally hooked up with a student who got my name from the internet and contacted me about instruction. I had explained to him before that I teach private lessons out at a local park my background etc. etc. I'm sure he was rpobably disapointed when I drove up and I'm a overweight mid 40's guy instead of the in shape martial arts pro he probably thought I'd be. Anyway he was thrilled to death with the lesson I taught. He told me he learned more in the two hour lesson I taught him, than he had at some sort of JKD school he briefly attended or the TKD lessons he had etc. etc.

I believe sometimes that we (as instructors) set our own ideas on what clients want (they want to know rank, lineage, etc. etc.) when in fact all they want is to be taught by a good compentent instructor and they get what they paid for (value for their dollar). With that in mind, I wouldn't worry about what org. is in charge instead be the best student you can be in order to become the best instructor you can be. And you will have students, and you will produce good ones on top of it.

From the sounds of it you have a good instructor now, learn from him, he really has received his training from two of the best sources (I know there are other good sources as well) out there. In time when you are an instructor then you might see about getting into an organization and becoming an instructor under that one as well. But I really believe that if you make becoming the best instructor/student you can be the priority you won't have a problem getting into any good organization.

Sorry about the long post
Mark

 

[Jonathan Randall]

Sorry about the long post
Mark

No, thank you for the long post! You made some very great points. I have seen or been to workshops from instructors of the same art, different organizations, and both were extremely competent - they were also not on speaking terms. What a tragedy for the arts.

There are some great people and great instructors who are in different JKD camps. Hopefully, politics will someday recede into the background. I know TKD had some very, very rough patches in the mid 1960's to mid 1970's (still has politics, but nothing like the post 1965 troubles). Perhaps JKD and JKD influenced arts will have the same resurgence.

As you mentioned in your post, your student learned a lot from you in only a single lesson. Good JKD can open the eyes of any practitioner, IMHO.

I am sorry to see that the name of the art is now copyrighted. The Lee's do deserve to have a financial legacy from their husband and father but I think this development is unfortunate. Maybe I'm wrong, though. Although I did see parts of a demo by BL in the early 1970's I was too young to know what I was seeing. Just some guy doing Kung Fu like in the TV series my parents wouldn't allow me to watch. LOL.

 

[Wild Bill]

Thanks to all who replied. I have a lot of ideas to chew on.

 

[Mark Lynn]

As you mentioned in your post, your student learned a lot from you in only a single lesson. Good JKD can open the eyes of any practitioner, IMHO.

Jonathan

I agree with you in regards with the rest your post. However I wanted to clarify something with your statement here.

I don't teach JKD, nor was I teaching JKD to the student. But "I agree good JKD can open the eyes of any practioner"

I've been in the MAs for almost 25 years now and at first I wanted to learn SD, and I thought that I got that from my American karate TKD training. I was exposed to the FMAs through Dan Inosanto (along with JKDC) and realized I didn't have a clue. From that point on (1983) I made it a point to try and learn from the best instructors I could and to try and learn how to be the best instructor I could be in order to teach and pass on to others that which impacted my life.

However over time I have learned some things, in some cases rank means nothing, in others it means a lot. Sometimes you learn a lot from the instructors at the big schools that sell the tapes and have the connections, and other times you can learn by slugging it out and getting your butt handed to you in a hot sweating garage dojo by people who do nothing but spar (and who care nothing about JKD, TKD, Karate politics, rank etc. etc.) (I'm refering to my karate instructors home dojo here ).

To me, the most important thing is to have good quality instruction, and to learn to be a good instructor if that is your far off in the future goal. In time I believe that rank, who's in charge of what, and even (for most of us American's) lineage really falls by the way side.

Mark

 

[Mark Lynn]

Wild Bill

If your current instructor is trying to get certified by Dan Inosanto in the JKDC group. Might I suggest that you (if you want to be an instructor and have students some day) make a committment to go see some other instructors maybe in the form of seminars or camps to broaden your horizons some.

When you have trained for a good while in your current system (I'd suggest some intermediate rank level) take a trip (if there isn't anything nearby) and plan to go see one of the top instructors in JKDC or OJKD (or what ever). This can be a great way to add tools to your tool box so to speak and be a way to help educate yourself on your chosen art.

Even though I don't practice JKD (never cared for the politics) I learned quite a bit of things to adapt to my karate/TKD training and through it and fell in love with the FMAs. But it was through seminars with Inosanto, Larry Hartsell, Ted Lucay Lucay and others that I learned things, concepts etc. etc. that really helped broaden my outlook on JKD and the martial arts in general.

By remaining on the outside (even in my FMA training) I was able to go wherever and learn from whomever I wanted to. I really didn't care or question who was in charge but rather do they have something I would like to learn.

Mark

 

[still learning]

Hello, It maybe about MONEY? Who own's the rights, will get the most money!

JKD has a great reputation in the martial art world.

Who should be the next leader for JKD? UM? Does it matter? Mr Bruce lee is not around to steer it in the direction he wanted.

It's just a name! ...................................Aloha

 

[Kenpojujitsu3]

This is just like what happened to American Kenpo when Ed parker died. All this sueing and bickering over WIDE SPREAD knowledge. And usually by family members with limited martial arts experience but who want the MONEY that goes with the NAME. I hope I'm wrong but it sounds like another case of people/family not worried about the "great masters" teachings and memories but about who gets the money that's made from them. Sigh.

 

[Dancing Dragon]

To me this entire situation seems like a routine process that nearly ever style goes through when it's been introduced to the public. The more students, the more interpretations of the particular style. That's why we have so many schools of Karate, Jujutsu and so on.

I also believe it all depends on who you believe to be correct. And if it helps you defend yourself then you should use it. So just follow your own truth.

 

[Flatlander]

Dancing Dragon, welcome to Martial Talk. Take a look around, and enjoy your stay here. I look forward to your contributions. :asian:

 

[Brad Dunne]

This is just like what happened to American Kenpo when Ed parker died. All this sueing and bickering over WIDE SPREAD knowledge. And usually by family members with limited martial arts experience but who want the MONEY that goes with the NAME. I hope I'm wrong but it sounds like another case of people/family not worried about the "great masters" teachings and memories but about who gets the money that's made from them. Sigh. (Quote)..............

I'm not familiar with the suit Linda Lee has, so I'm going to take a wild assumption and say that perhaps she is in reality trying to protect what her husband taught and gave to people. Perhaps she is just flat out tired of everyone using the name JKD and not really teaching the concepts that was originally intended, thereby dishonoring Bruce and his teachings. I would think that if she was after just the money, wouldn't she have done this action years ago when JKD was at the hight of it's offerings?

 

[Kenpojujitsu3]

I'm not familiar with the suit Linda Lee has, so I'm going to take a wild assumption and say that perhaps she is in reality trying to protect what her husband taught and gave to people. Perhaps she is just flat out tired of everyone using the name JKD and not really teaching the concepts that was originally intended, thereby dishonoring Bruce and his teachings. I would think that if she was after just the money, wouldn't she have done this action years ago when JKD was at the hight of it's offerings?

I hope you're right....but suing Dan Inosanto who was in at least 1 of Lee's movies? has his pictures in at least 4 of Lee's books? and is widely considered to be Bruce Lee's best/closest student? Sue Dan Inosanto for dishonoring Lee's teaching's when he is arguably doing the most to continue to promote Lee's art such as travelling the world doing seminars and releasing instructional videos and interviews that praise Bruce Lee endlessly? Sue Dan Inosanto for tryng to continue Lee's work and adhere to Bruce Lee's philosophy of "being formless"? To me that sounds very unlikely from a logical standpoint considering how long Dan Inosanto was by Lee's side and how long Dan Insanto has been close to the Lee family. I would assume she would sue the people that no one ever heard of until after Bruce Lee's death instead of Dan Inosanto. You know the JKD experts that popped up over night? Or maybe it's just because Dan Inosanto might make the most money off of JKD? I don't know the answer but from the honor side of things, I hope you're right or it's another sad day for the martial arts indeed.

 

[Toasty]

Anyone have actual source for this supposed law suit?

I have heard this as an internet rumor for years, and to this day no one has been able to state that there is in fact any type of suit that involves Linda Lee and Dan Inosanto... its always " i heard..." or I know a guy who is friends with..." or some other BS.

 

[Aikia]

I have heard that the Lee vs Inosanto suit had to do with ownership of Bruce Lee's training equipment and gear that had been left at the Inosanto Academy and never retreived. I don't think it was a personal injury or anything other than simple possession/location of Bruce Lee items. No attempt to take over control or attempt to lessen the importance of Dan Inosanto to JKD.

To answer your question the Bruce Lee family have always been in charge of jeet kune do. At this point they seem to be more vocal and focused on their attention to preserving Bruce Lee's legacy. I might add that I don't think this will stop instructors from teaching individual versions of JKD.

 

[achilles]

I was under the impression that at least part of the suit dealt with the use of certain terms such as Jeet Kune Do, Jun Fan as well as the famous yin/yang symbol with the chinese characters and arrows surrounding it popularized by Lee. That seems to be the impetus of Inosanto's changing of the logo he uses now as well as the change of the name of some of the classes he offers (i.e. Jeet Kune rather than Jun Fan).

It seems like a rather unfortunate and divisive turn of events.

 

[Toasty]

AKIA, no offense man, but your very first words are "I have heard" - thats what all the rumors of the supposed suit start with... not actual proof.

 

[Kenpojujitsu3]

AKIA, no offense man, but your very first words are "I have heard" - thats what all the rumors of the supposed suit start with... not actual proof.

Actually all knowledge pertaining to a suit such as this should start with "I have heard" or something similar as confidentiality law prohibits details of personal suits like this from being released as fact. This isn't the type of lawsuit where it's an important public figure who has a press release about a pending case. So if someone does present "concrete facts" then they are open to a suit as well which would be quite foolish on their part just to sate others appetite for knowledge.

 

[Toasty]

Yeah, I get what your saying... but dont understand me too quickly.
All I am getting at is the supposed lawsuit may not (probably does not) even exist. The whole rumour of it started waaaay back when the JKD nuculus was started.
And as i understand it, since then Linda & Dan have been in touch on & off and there has never been even a hint of any animosity, let alone the lawsuit talk.

So the whole "I heard Linda is suing Danny" BS is more than likely just that, BS.

No one even seems to able to agree on what this phantom lawsuit is about - so they just fill in what they think it would be about based on their feelings for either side...

anyway, its all ridiculousness...

Rob