Which kind of strenght training it's better for martial arts?

jobo

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I know CF gets a bad press, but my secret reaction to it is, I wish I was 24 again, id have,a go at that. Take out some of the rather dubious lifting form and id have to,agree that it should help your MA quite a bit. Or that MA should include some of the intensity and gymnastics of,cross fit
 

thanson02

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I know CF gets a bad press, but my secret reaction to it is, I wish I was 24 again, id have,a go at that. Take out some of the rather dubious lifting form and id have to,agree that it should help your MA quite a bit. Or that MA should include some of the intensity and gymnastics of,cross fit

I think the quality really depends on what gym you go to. I have a friend who do Cross-fit and he said that the guy who got him into it went through local websites and showed him what to look for to make sure he got a good gym. He is loving the personal attention he gets with the trainers and everything he has seen seems on the up and up. He has been doing it for a year now and he has no complaints.

Like all things, there are good places and bad places. From what I have seen though, with all the workout programs they have, it seems to get the best bang for it's buck, assuming you find a good gym.
 

jobo

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I think the quality really depends on what gym you go to. I have a friend who do Cross-fit and he said that the guy who got him into it went through local websites and showed him what to look for to make sure he got a good gym. He is loving the personal attention he gets with the trainers and everything he has seen seems on the up and up. He has been doing it for a year now and he has no complaints.

Like all things, there are good places and bad places. From what I have seen though, with all the workout programs they have, it seems to get the best bang for it's buck, assuming you find a good gym.
I think the proof is in the pudding, as they say, that those who do it end up very strong , co ordinated with great cardio,

I was reading an,article on T nation last night about how effective it is, which is unusual as Tnation being mostly a body building web,site, is usually slagging it off as its not the best way to build muscle and they believe that cardio,steals your gains, so won't even go for a fast walk in case it steals their biceps' .

they,drew attention to the fact that it has seen the,rise of the very,strong young woman, girls who can clean and jerk,200 lbs or dead lift three hundred lbs are common place in cross fit and of course the men are slightly (about 15%) stronger . Those are good number for anyone,that its a 10stone,girl doing it is,doubly impressive
 

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Based on what I have seen, I usually recommend to people to get into Cross-fit if they are looking to supplement their martial art training. It covers everything across the board, because of it's nature, you don't have to worry about repetitive motion injuries, and it seems to complement martial art training really well.
Many cross fit gyms do a bad job of helping people avoid injury. The concept is good, the execution is too often mis-focused.
 

jobo

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Many cross fit gyms do a bad job of helping people avoid injury. The concept is good, the execution is too often mis-focused.
I don't know if its many? There are certainly a lot of you tube vids of people dead lifting with a,curved back, that is an injury waiting to happen, but there are at least as many video of body builder and strenghbuilders lifting with,a,curved back, so its not contained to cross fit
 

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While I am not saying there is no value, I am curious whose martial art does not require increases in muscle strength and speed of movement by using kata, sparring, stretching, warm-up calisthenics, etc? And does it a little at a time as one progresses, so one's body is better able to accept the increases.
 

jobo

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While I am not saying there is no value, I am curious whose martial art does not require increases in muscle strength and speed of movement by using kata, sparring, stretching, warm-up calisthenics, etc? And does it a little at a time as one progresses, so one's body is better able to accept the increases.
well all of them i suggest, those will indeed increase your physical capabilities', if your capabilities are very very low to begin with. If you are of a reasonable fitness level they shouldn't tax you at all, cross fit on the other hand demands a fitness level well well above average
 

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I don't know if its many? There are certainly a lot of you tube vids of people dead lifting with a,curved back, that is an injury waiting to happen, but there are at least as many video of body builder and strenghbuilders lifting with,a,curved back, so its not contained to cross fit
Agreed. The issue is that crossfit seems to push speed and weight ahead of good form. People who train on their own will often make some of the same mistakes, but having an instructor should prevent those (but doesn't seem to do so with regularity in crossfit).
 

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While I am not saying there is no value, I am curious whose martial art does not require increases in muscle strength and speed of movement by using kata, sparring, stretching, warm-up calisthenics, etc? And does it a little at a time as one progresses, so one's body is better able to accept the increases.
I can't think of much in NGA that would inherently encourage building of strength, other than resisted grappling (a portion of our training). The nature of how we execute relies very little on strength, so doesn't develop much strength. I make a point of including some brief, but effective, fitness work at the beginning of classes.
 

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well all of them i suggest, those will indeed increase your physical capabilities', if your capabilities are very very low to begin with. If you are of a reasonable fitness level they shouldn't tax you at all, cross fit on the other hand demands a fitness level well well above average
Resisted grappling (Judo and BJJ) will probably always have some benefit, even for the fit (so long as your partner is similarly fit). Some kata are performed under tension, which should also have some benefit for all (the stronger you are, the more isometric resistance there is). Both can also have good ongoing cardio development benefits. Neither will compare to the same with some added strength and cardio training.
 

jobo

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Resisted grappling (Judo and BJJ) will probably always have some benefit, even for the fit (so long as your partner is similarly fit). Some kata are performed under tension, which should also have some benefit for all (the stronger you are, the more isometric resistance there is). Both can also have good ongoing cardio development benefits. Neither will compare to the same with some added strength and cardio training.
we have been through this before, you are always going to top out at a relativly low level of fitness in an MA class unless there is a dedicated fitness/ conditioning element. That constantly pushes greater and greater performance out of the student. The benefit and possibly biggest draw back with cross fit is that every thing is competative, how many push ups/ pull ups you can do, how high you can jump, what you can lift, etal. Hence the potential for injury and the benefits of far greater fitness if you can avoid getting badly injured
 

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we have been through this before, you are always going to top out at a relativly low level of fitness in an MA class unless there is a dedicated fitness/ conditioning element. That constantly pushes greater and greater performance out of the student. The benefit and possibly biggest draw back with cross fit is that every thing is competative, how many push ups/ pull ups you can do, how high you can jump, what you can lift, etal. Hence the potential for injury and the benefits of far greater fitness if you can avoid getting badly injured
Is that supposed to be contrary to what I just said?
 

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I think some strikers have the wrong idea about strength training. I think they equate strength primarily with the application of punches and kicks. But strength training provides you with benefits much more complex than that.
 

thanson02

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Agreed. The issue is that crossfit seems to push speed and weight ahead of good form. People who train on their own will often make some of the same mistakes, but having an instructor should prevent those (but doesn't seem to do so with regularity in crossfit).

And what that tells me is that by friend is at a good gym. He says that the instructor is always paying attention to what people are doing wrong and makes sure to correct it right away.
 

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And what that tells me is that by friend is at a good gym. He says that the instructor is always paying attention to what people are doing wrong and makes sure to correct it right away.
That's what it should always look like. There are definitely some (hopefully many) good crossfit gyms out there. I think there are also too many that have people leading the training who are not properly prepared for it, don't really understand the kinesiology (I'm never certain I've spelled that correctly) involved, and don't know how to actually maximize benefits for participants. Kind of like MA, actually.
 

jobo

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I think some strikers have the wrong idea about strength training. I think they equate strength primarily with the application of punches and kicks. But strength training provides you with benefits much more complex than that.
it does indeed, from the psychological aspect of knowing your likely the strongest person in the room to the certain knowledge very few people can just over welm you. To the posture benefits and the reductions in injury. And of course the fact you can climb a high wall or a tree to get the kid's ball back or throw rabid pit bull over a,wall.

I think many people have an issue with strengh training as it is in many ways contrary to the philosophy of tma, that you can use techneque to generate power to over come a stronger oppoinent and that then attracts people who have a strength deficience is the first place.

And it certainly true that power generation through movement weight shift or just good old techneque can deliver a punch or a pull or a push far above that you would expect from someone of that,strength level. But this will always be a weaker punch,etc than the same person could deliver if they focus on strengh as well as techneque.

im having trouble at the class now as i can't get any of my fellow students to hold a focus pad for me as it either hurts their arm or if its being held against their chest , just knocks them over, that's their weakness that's the problem rather than me having super human,strength . If they are not strong enough to resist being knocked over with a 4" pad protecting them, they won't fair well in the real world.
its only when the big guy with the gangsta tattoos turn up that I can have some sport, we have a who can make the other one take a backward step competition
 
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