Where does your training fit on the Macho Scale?

[Juany118]

I am a weirdo. Example when the knives and sticks come out, even just for sumbrada or sinawali the safety glasses go on. However when full sparring, if we are using the very lightly padded sticks, I will only put on light padded gloves and head gear, no body armor, forearm guards etc. My personal view there is that padded stick + body armor means I feel nothing ergo I lose an incentive to defend as well as attack. Each bruise is a reminder to me but it stops at me being willing to accept bruises and other minor injuries.

 

[Flying Crane]

Didn't Topper Harley dip his fists in honey and gummie bears for an underground tournament?

 

[drop bear]

I am a weirdo. Example when the knives and sticks come out, even just for sumbrada or sinawali the safety glasses go on. However when full sparring, if we are using the very lightly padded sticks, I will only put on light padded gloves and head gear, no body armor, forearm guards etc. My personal view there is that padded stick + body armor means I feel nothing ergo I lose an incentive to defend as well as attack. Each bruise is a reminder to me but it stops at me being willing to accept bruises and other minor injuries.

Not especially. You need to protect yourself more in drills so that you can drill for longer.

 

[Juany118]

Not especially. You need to protect yourself more in drills so that you can drill for longer.

I'm not talking about the drills, though but full sparring. When we do that we use rigid core sticks with a thin, not "cushy" foam outer. Basically it's just designed to not break bone but they will bang you up. Some of the people chose to wear the full Kali sparring tunic when we use them. It seems to encourage all out attack because there is little sense of being hit.

 

[JP3]

Shoot.... I've gone all relaxed and complacent as I've slid through this last five years or so.... With what we're doing now, as in right now with the group I've got at the level they're at... I'd say I'm maxing out at a 2 on Geezer's macho scale. Very UN-macho, but at least we're out there doing it training session after training session , week after week, so we're higher than a 1.

I'm trying to decide if the slam-bang, competition judo group I trained with for those years was worse... umm... I mean better... than the Muay Thai group I trained with. One might think that the Thai boxing was fiercer, but I left class more exhausted, more endorphins after finishing up, more bumped-up and bruised in judo than I ever did during Thai boxing class.

At times, before a bout, or an upcoming big tournament, I'd give them a tie, max, of a session of about 8, but that was the height of it. Usually maybe a 6.

 

[Juany118]

Yesterday I was training with a couple of guys. One had a freshly broken pinkie finger which he declined to mention to me until about half way through practice when we were doing disarms ...and he kept dropping his stick and grimmacing.

Another nearly guy caught a stick in the eye doing drills. Later he mentioned that he did have safety glasses but preferred not to wear them. They "looked dumb".

This got me to thinking about the risks we take and the general role of machismo in MA training ...even among the guys (and it usually is the guys in my experience) who are not overly "macho" in their day-to-day lives.


Here are a few random thoughts: Since I coach a small group and can't afford insurance, so maybe I should require safety glasses whenever we are training? And maybe I should set an example, modeling the correct behavior, by wearing safety gasses myself. 'Cause the waiver we all sign is probably next to useless if I get sued. And getting hit with a suit is a lot scarier than getting hit with a stick!!!

....But on the other hand, if I do that, I will look like a dork. Er ...make that more of a dork. At any rate it will definitely move me down on the Macho Scale. ....You guys know about the Macho Scale, right?

THE MACHO SCALE:


Menos Macho --------------------------------------------- Mas o Menos ----------------------------------------------Muy Macho
1---------------2---------------3---------------4--------------5--------------6 ---------------7---------------8 ---------------9--------------10

Let me give some random examples to start:

Me? I'm a goof-ball. But I'm not a "fraidy-cat". All told, I'd like to think I'm around a 5. ...that's Mas o menos. Macho is OK if you aren't a poser. You've got to be honest with yourself, and you have to balance it with common sense and concern for your students. I'd gladly drop down lower on the scale, ...you know, wearing stupid safety glasses, or whatever, if it helps my students train safely. On the other hand, you do have to accept some risk. After all, FMA is a martial art.

Then there's the guy I met at open training once, ...he's a body builder too ---super buff. Anyway, he said that if you didn't train all drills with near full power with no padding or protection that you weren't learning properly. That if you didn't bust up your fingers, etc. you wouldn't learn to respond properly to a real threat.

Maybe I'd rate him 6-7. I'd give him 8 if he actually did suffer injuries instead of just inflicting them on his students.


And, of course, there's the Dog Brothers. Total respect. Especially those who compete repeatedly and become a full fledged Dog Bro. And though I've never met him, Crafty Dog Mark Denny seems like a standup guy and an accomplished martial artist, not like the jerk described above. I'd easily give any of those guys an 8 or better ...and in a good way.

Now, how about these guys:

...I don't know. Just seems a little over-the-top to me. I'd give them a 9, but that's not necessarily an endorsement. Not something I'd want to do, even if I were a lot younger.

So what's a 10?

...Well, how about this guy. Carlito Bonjoc. Years back I attended a seminar with him:

Carlitos has spina bifida which, I'm told, is a progressively deteriorating congenital condition where some of the nerves of the base of the spine are open and exposed. As a young man, Carlitos could walk after a fashion. He took up Serrada Escrima and became very good in spite of his physical issues.

When I met him, he was already basically confined to a wheelchair, but could hoist himself up onto a bar-stool and wedge himself into a more or less stable position braced with his extended legs. From that point he became like the calm eye of the hurricane, mata sa bagyo, raining blows down with lighting speed and accuracy. Amazing to watch.

During one hard exchange he became unbalanced and the bar-stool toppled. Carlto was sent crashing to the floor, right on his damaged spine. He went pale as a ghost and almost passed out. A couple of people ran to assist him. In a moment, he caught his breath, shook himself free, and with a fierce grimace, hauled himself right back up onto the stool and proceeded to continue with the demo.

That's a 10.

Quoted your post to simply say one thing. Carlitos is a BAMF, pure and simple.

 

[Buka]

I was running a DT class back in 05. The former instructor, who I replaced a couple years before, stopped by. He was a Captain now, built like boulder, had an easy hundred pounds on me. Rudely interrupted my class to show something, and of course, used me as his example. I was to grip him by his shirt, he was to break the hold using sheer strength. Except I wouldn't let go no matter how hard, and how many times, he smashed my arm. Made him look silly. I know, stupid on my part, but I don't care.

Broke my arm [avulsion fracture] Fortunately, it was at the end of the day. Went to the ER, got a cast and a sling, went back to work the next day, and didn't miss any days, not one. The bosses wouldn't let me wear the sling, so I hooked my thumb through the buttons on my shirt instead. Under any other circumstance, ANY, I would have stayed home for a couple months, full pay, and I would have milked the hell out of that puppy. But not when it came from DT. That just wasn't happening.

It had nothing whatsoever to do about being macho. It had everything to do about being stubborn, and being righteous.

 

[Tony Dismukes]

What was it he finished Randleman with, a Kimura maybe? Some kind of arm lock.

Tony, you got that in your arsenal, in spades I'll bet. And you certainly know the position game.

Sure, I'm at least basically competent in almost any standard finishing move (striking or grappling). Some I'm even kind of good at. That doesn't mean I'll get them to work against a world-class professional fighter who has much greater strength, speed, and endurance as well as almost psychotic levels of toughness and aggression. Likewise my positional game, while decent, is not at the level of a top (All-American, 2-time NCAA champion) collegiate wrestler. I'm a competent hobbyist BJJ black belt, not Rickson Gracie.

It had nothing whatsoever to do about being macho. It had everything to do about being stubborn, and being righteous.

Yeah, I'm sure there's never any connection between being macho and being stubborn/righteous.

 

[Buka]

Sure, I'm at least basically competent in almost any standard finishing move (striking or grappling). Some I'm even kind of good at. That doesn't mean I'll get them to work against a world-class professional fighter who has much greater strength, speed, and endurance as well as almost psychotic levels of toughness and aggression. Likewise my positional game, while decent, is not at the level of a top (All-American, 2-time NCAA champion) collegiate wrestler. I'm a competent hobbyist BJJ black belt, not Rickson Gracie.

Competent hobbyist. Yeah, I can see that. Only doing BJJ for a dozen or so years now, right, I get it, made black belt, piece of cake. Nothing before that. Oh, wait.....there were those decades where you trained other arts. Just as a hobby, of course. You don't train other arts any more....oh, wait, you do.

Hobbyist. You can just quit, cold turkey, any time you want. I'll bet you could go on a two week vacation and not take or teach a class. Probably wouldn't even THINK about anything Martial related in those two weeks. Wouldn't once let your mind stray to what you might work on in class when vacations is over, not once have your mind wander to that foot lock you don't do particularilly well, or about footwork or this or that or the other thing.

Yeah....hobbyist, that's the ticket.

You Martial Junkie Dog

 

[Tony Dismukes]

Competent hobbyist. Yeah, I can see that. Only doing BJJ for a dozen or so years now, right, I get it, made black belt, piece of cake. Nothing before that. Oh, wait.....there were those decades where you trained other arts. Just as a hobby, of course. You don't train other arts any more....oh, wait, you do.

Hobbyist. You can just quit, cold turkey, any time you want. I'll bet you could go on a two week vacation and not take or teach a class. Probably wouldn't even THINK about anything Martial related in those two weeks. Wouldn't once let your mind stray to what you might work on in class when vacations is over, not once have your mind wander to that foot lock you don't do particularilly well, or about footwork or this or that or the other thing.

Yeah....hobbyist, that's the ticket.

You Martial Junkie Dog

Okay, a dedicated hobbyist.

 

[Juany118]

Okay, a dedicated obsessive.

Fixed it for you

Tbh though would any of us be here if we weren't obsessive to some degree?

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Here's a story which helped convince me that I would never ever approach the upper end of the macho scale ...

It's about Kevin Randleman, back in his collegiate wrestling days, before he got into MMA.

According to Mark Coleman, Randleman was competing in a tournament, and partway through he got his jaw dislocated in one of his matches. Even though he won the match, the officials told him that he would not be allowed to go on to the next match with a dislocated jaw.

Randleman went to Coleman (who was his coach at the time) and asked Coleman to punch him in the jaw to knock it back into place. After Coleman sensibly refused to do so, Randleman got down on a mat, turned his head sideways, and slammed the side of his own face into the mat to knock his jaw back in to position.

He then went back out to win the rest of the tournament.

Think about it for a minute. Even if he didn't have top-notch skills. Even if he wasn't a physical beast, Would you ever want to fight someone who has that mindset?

Nah ... I'm a big old wuss and I'm happy to admit it.

Agreed. I'm not nearly that macho. I'd whimper, at best.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Geezer,
0 or 5 or 9 or 12+
I like to train safe. - slow is smooth / smooth is fast
I also have done what you rated as a 9 .
I have had broken fingers before and asked the doc about them and he said it would have to be re-broke and set to heal properly. I said coo I can take care of it. He freaked out thinking I was going to hit with a hammer myself. I explained it would break in class from strikes and then I would set and brace it with a finger frog/splint. --- I did that exactly about two months later. The person training with me fell to the mats - and he was out as I snapped the finger straight and then looked towards my bag for my tape and frog.
I also was stupid and accepted a challenge from the PI in the 99 ish on the Escrima Digest , Live Blades to be used. I asked for Hawaii so my insurance would still work and that we could agree on a time good with us both. Before I could follow up they complained that it was not fair for me to set a location other than to come to them. They dropped it before I could reply the next day as the other members had replied it was more than fair, Crazy and stupid, yet fair. Their words.
-----
I like to think of myself as a 0 though. I try not to be macho and go out of my way to make my size and movements non threatening or ... , and yet one can only do so much.
So how would you rate the above? (* Other than silly or stupid *)

 

[Jenna]

Geezer,
0 or 5 or 9 or 12+
I like to train safe. - slow is smooth / smooth is fast
I also have done what you rated as a 9 .
I have had broken fingers before and asked the doc about them and he said it would have to be re-broke and set to heal properly. I said coo I can take care of it. He freaked out thinking I was going to hit with a hammer myself. I explained it would break in class from strikes and then I would set and brace it with a finger frog/splint. --- I did that exactly about two months later. The person training with me fell to the mats - and he was out as I snapped the finger straight and then looked towards my bag for my tape and frog.
I also was stupid and accepted a challenge from the PI in the 99 ish on the Escrima Digest , Live Blades to be used. I asked for Hawaii so my insurance would still work and that we could agree on a time good with us both. Before I could follow up they complained that it was not fair for me to set a location other than to come to them. They dropped it before I could reply the next day as the other members had replied it was more than fair, Crazy and stupid, yet fair. Their words.
-----
I like to think of myself as a 0 though. I try not to be macho and go out of my way to make my size and movements non threatening or ... , and yet one can only do so much.
So how would you rate the above? (* Other than silly or stupid *)

I see you as big softie level 0 most time yes? Then what is it about the circumstance that would cause you to act at 9 or 12+ level occasional times?? What change or what is different?? x

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Geezer,
0 or 5 or 9 or 12+
I like to train safe. - slow is smooth / smooth is fast
I also have done what you rated as a 9 .
I have had broken fingers before and asked the doc about them and he said it would have to be re-broke and set to heal properly. I said coo I can take care of it. He freaked out thinking I was going to hit with a hammer myself. I explained it would break in class from strikes and then I would set and brace it with a finger frog/splint. --- I did that exactly about two months later. The person training with me fell to the mats - and he was out as I snapped the finger straight and then looked towards my bag for my tape and frog.
I also was stupid and accepted a challenge from the PI in the 99 ish on the Escrima Digest , Live Blades to be used. I asked for Hawaii so my insurance would still work and that we could agree on a time good with us both. Before I could follow up they complained that it was not fair for me to set a location other than to come to them. They dropped it before I could reply the next day as the other members had replied it was more than fair, Crazy and stupid, yet fair. Their words.
-----
I like to think of myself as a 0 though. I try not to be macho and go out of my way to make my size and movements non threatening or ... , and yet one can only do so much.
So how would you rate the above? (* Other than silly or stupid *)

I can't come up with much besides silly and stupid, Rich.

 

[Buka]

Back in the day, my wife would drive to the train station, commute to her full time job downtown, get out of work and reverse the process, drive to the dojo, work out as hard as anyone I've ever taught, and be the last to leave every night. She did it every Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday and Thursday night, as well as a Saturday morning class. Other than a few minor surgeries, non Martial related, she never missed a class, not a single one, for nine years - until we went on our honeymoon.

I still don't know how she did that. Especially all banged up from training and sparring.

 

[Rich Parsons]

I can't come up with much besides silly and stupid, Rich.

Hey I resemble that !!

 

[Rich Parsons]

I see you as big softie level 0 most time yes? Then what is it about the circumstance that would cause you to act at 9 or 12+ level occasional times?? What change or what is different?? x

I do not like Bullies.
I have put myself between others and danger before. Not as a LEO or Military, just local security and bouncing a place from criminal types and those who spend money while making is so families who leave early and do spend as much money would come occasionally.
The 12 could be a special time in my life when I had little to worry about with no assets to loose and no people who looked to me as a caretaker.
.
Most of the time, I am a 0 as you pointed out.

 

[Hyoho]

Zero! The arts arts supposed to teach humility. If you dont have that? Best not label what you do as an art.

 

[drop bear]

Zero! The arts arts supposed to teach humility. If you dont have that? Best not label what you do as an art.

I am incredibly humble. In fact the first words out of my mouth are generally how humble I am.