Where did Chow's Hung Gar go?

Xinglu

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wow sounds like CHow said lots of things.

you would think the history wouldnt be so convoluted, it wasnt that long ago

Most Americans can't get the reasons congress cited for going into Iraq right, and that happened in this decade.

With that track record, it is unreasonable to think that a smaller group of people could remember all the facts about a man over two and a half decades after his death.

Okay, all "snarkiness" aside, the root of the problem is that when someone says something to a group of people, each person hears something slightly different. Fast forward 40+ years and this is what we have.

I find that the truth is in the commonalities and more often then not, in between the contradictions.
 

KenpoDave

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uh, yes, we do. Lots of people that have no obligation or self interest in believing the Tracy stories have all stated opinions, and they are all the same.

Mitose was basic, hard style linear karate. no circular movements. No flow. We have an ACTUAL witness here that has said so.

An actual witness to a demonstration. I doubt that it was all encompassing of what Mitose taught. We don't know what all he taught.
 

punisher73

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I think alot of it lies in the fact that, most of the founders didn't KNOW they were making history. They just did what they loved and picked up things here and there and shared it with others. They didn't think to document everything.

Also, the "lineage" thing is a lot more modern cultural aspect brought into the martial arts. It wasn't really found in the okinawan culture. Many people studied with many people and learned bits of techniques or a kata with so-and-so.

I think due to the culture, someone learning kung fu from your Chinese father would be equivalent to a father here in the US teaching his son some boxing. You wouldn't really think about "lineage" of where he learned it from, or would you classify your dad as a boxer either.

Lastly, I also think it is possible that Chow was VERY talented and could pick up things without being formally taught them and could have learned kung fu from watching others fight/practice and then incorporated those elements into his own approach/study.
 

Xinglu

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I think due to the culture, someone learning kung fu from your Chinese father would be equivalent to a father here in the US teaching his son some boxing. You wouldn't really think about "lineage" of where he learned it from, or would you classify your dad as a boxer either.

True. We also don't know how regularly and formally he trained with his father. So we have no Idea how much he actually learned or if it was the equivalent of learning the boxing basics. Which would be enough to apply the principles of basic hongjia into kenpo, and create drastic change.
 

dianhsuhe

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Grandmaster Kuoha has been active both on this site as well as the Kenpotalk site so you might direct your question to him.

Xinglu- How long did you train in Kara-Ho and with whom?
 

Xinglu

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Grandmaster Kuoha has been active both on this site as well as the Kenpotalk site so you might direct your question to him.
This was my original recommendation on the "Differences" thread.

Xinglu- How long did you train in Kara-Ho and with whom?
I already answered this on the "differences" thread, but I will answer it again here - I studied for ten years under GM, from Age seven to seventeen. I also trained a bit with Shihan Kahananui as I was very interested in kiatsu. In fact I have him to thank for inspiring me to learn the healing arts and therefore for my career.
 

still learning

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Hello, Just found some info here....Please read

Chinese Kara-Ho Volume one: Sam Kuoha books will tell you about Professor Chows- the truths is listed here from Sam and Mrs Chow!

Please read read the book for yourself and GET THE FACTS PLEASE!

There is a copy of Professor Chows certificate of Death
Pictures of Professor Chows Father: Buddhist Priest Chow Hoon
Professor Willam Kwai Sun Chow (1952-1953)...Jugo-dan 15th Degree Black Belt.

Professor Sam Kuoha was awarded a 9th Degree Black Belt by Professor Chow...one of his top students.

Aloha,
 

Xinglu

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Hello, Just found some info here....Please read

Chinese Kara-Ho Volume one: Sam Kuoha books will tell you about Professor Chows- the truths is listed here from Sam and Mrs Chow!

Please read read the book for yourself and GET THE FACTS PLEASE!

There is a copy of Professor Chows certificate of Death
Pictures of Professor Chows Father: Buddhist Priest Chow Hoon
Professor Willam Kwai Sun Chow (1952-1953)...Jugo-dan 15th Degree Black Belt.

Professor Sam Kuoha was awarded a 9th Degree Black Belt by Professor Chow...one of his top students.

Aloha,

I own a copy of both books published and have read them cover to cover multiple time. What Facts are missing on this thread regarding Hongjia?

On pages 3 Chow Hoon's martial training is generically refered to as gongfu (that could be anything). On page 19 it reads "...the training started with the learning of the family style of gongfu from Priest Chow Hoon, to Professor Chow."

It then goes on to read That Chow Hoon emigrated from 上海 (Shanghai) to Hawaii and worked as a tailor, that gongfu and taijiquan training was mandatory in all schools in China and American-Chinese schools.

But never does the book address what type of gongfu it is. A family style? Which line? Hongjia IS a family style, do the Chows trace family lineage to them? The book does not address the specifics.
 

still learning

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I own a copy of both books published and have read them cover to cover multiple time. What Facts are missing on this thread regarding Hongjia?

On pages 3 Chow Hoon's martial training is generically refered to as gongfu (that could be anything). On page 19 it reads "...the training started with the learning of the family style of gongfu from Priest Chow Hoon, to Professor Chow."

It then goes on to read That Chow Hoon emigrated from 上海 (Shanghai) to Hawaii and worked as a tailor, that gongfu and taijiquan training was mandatory in all schools in China and American-Chinese schools.

But never does the book address what type of gongfu it is. A family style? Which line? Hongjia IS a family style, do the Chows trace family lineage to them? The book does not address the specifics.

Hello, Thank-you for the additional informations and Yes...NOT all is listed too....Just the facts known to from Professor Kuaho..

Aloha,

PS: Most Martials Arts...have very few Docomented histories...of the past....
 

Xinglu

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Hello, Thank-you for the additional informations and Yes...NOT all is listed too....Just the facts known to from Professor Kuaho..

Aloha,

PS: Most Martials Arts...have very few Docomented histories...of the past....

Having been a student of GM Kuoha, I can attest that the two books he wrote are just the basics and do not impart all the facts of knowledge he has regarding anything in the books.
 

dianhsuhe

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Grandmaster Kuoha will tell you that the new Professor Chow is found in the 6-10 and 11-15 techniques which were designed by Professor Chow in the late 70's and earl 80's.

Actual Kara-Ho techniques are never published in full, and this is intentional. Even the most basic of techniques. In the older magazines the techniques described are improvised often including parts of actual techniques.

There were just too many folks teaching their "impression" of Kara-Ho back in the day and learning techniques from magazines alone.

The 6-10's are taught to the students at Nidan moving towards Sandan and there are not many folks at that level in Kara-Ho.

These books are meant to cover the basics as Daniel mentioned, nothing or real signifigance is covered in the first book- there were other volumes planned...

Take care,
Jamey
 

dianhsuhe

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I can tell you that the advanced series of techniques in Kara-Ho Kempo (6-10's and 11-15's) are VERY circular and obviously have a major Kung-Fu influence. ;)

The hard part is finding someone to show them to ou-

Jamey
 

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