What would you do to a burgular in your home?

[Scarey]

There is a television commercial out right now and it has a couple in bed and they hear a noise in the house at night, the guy gets up to investigate, without a weapon, he sees someone breaking the door down, runs back up to the bedroom, shuts and locks the door.
This is a great example of how cowardly people are becoming. If I had got up to investigate a noise, i would have grabbed my 18.5" pump ( with pistol grips) shot gun, and used it instead of running to my bedroom. Could i have been killed or injured in the meantime, yes, but then again both my wife and myself could have been killed by allowing the intruder to enter unopposed.

And, this of course, is a ploy by the media to show people what they "should do".

 

[MJS]

I agree about the nature of the Dispatcher's job, Mike. I can also visualise the 'disconnect' between the dispatcher and the responding officers (of whatever service).

From my own experience, many years ago a friend of mine had a psychotropic (don't know if that's the right term) reaction to his drinks whilst we were at a nightclub out in the countryside.

I was trying to walk him home, not easy because he's twice my size, when he collapses in a fit at the roadside, frothing at the mouth and twitching. I wedge his mouth open, trapping his tongue, with a pen I have on me and run back to the nightclub. I have to fast-talk my way past the bouncers to get to the public pay-phone inside (which shows how long ago this was ).

I ring 999, ask for the ambulance service, give my name, address, location and a brief description of the emergency. They tell me a unit will be there in fifteen minutes. I thank them and say I will go back to my friend and stay with him.

I run back the mile up the hill and find ... my friend is gone . I search about for him and he's not crawled off into the woods or gone along the road on his own. A couple nearby (ahem) see my confused perigrinations, ask me if I'm looking for my friend and tell me that a car coming from the club had stopped and picked him up - so I had little choice but wait for the ambulance to show up and confess what had occurred.

I've often thought what the dispatcher and that ambulance crew must've thought of me for, effectively, wasting their time.

Anyhow, wandering now; clearly it's too late to be posting . I just thought it might be illuminating to see how, even in a circumstance that is not home-invasion, confusion can reign supreme.

We've taken calls of a similar nature. Someone passing by and seeing a person laying on the ground, on a bench, etc. Its usually a good assumption, given the area this usually happens, that its someone who is drunk, however, we still treat it as an unknown problem, which gets the whole 9 yards, as far as medical serivces go, when in reality, all thats needed is an ambulance to transport them.

I suppose its better to lean on the side of caution though.

 

[MJS]

MJS, I just want to thank you for that insight into the job. It's something we all should've been able to infer but I think we're all guilty of not understanding the complexities of another mans job at times :rei:.

No problem. Many times when I'm sharing stories with my family, my wifes jaw drops at some of the stuff I say. I always tell her, "Sometimes you have to see it to believe it."

 

[MJS]

I'll admit it, and say that my experience with 911 dispatch has always been very positive. It's true that I have a lot of interaction with LEO's and PO's in the course of a work week, so maybe have come to know how to give the info they're looking for...or, maybe the military had something to do with it, or whatever. But I've just been fortunate, I guess.

This is not to denigrate or minimize the experiences of anyone else, since I think services vary somewhat, and I can surely picture some of the anecdotes here. But as skn said, Mike, thanks for sharing your insights. :asian:

You're welcome and as I said, there are good ones and bad ones. I just wish that there wasn't so many ones with...for lack of better words...issues.

 

[MJS]

I've been a cop for 11 years....before that I was a dispatcher for 2 years. There are a lot of good dispatchers....of course even as a cop, there are a few dispatchers you hate to hear working your shift.

LOL! So true! I've had officers call me on the phone and say, "Who the **** is that on the radio??? Please, give them something else to do tonight!!!"

Dispatching is a tough job, and not for everyone....I wouldn't want to do it again, it's stressful....I thought it was more stressful than working the road....in the sense of negative stress.

I've come to appreciate truly talented dispatchers, who have a feel for the job and what it requires.

I think its beneficial for both sides to see what the other does, and you're 100% correct...it gives a feel. Likewise, thats one of the reasons I enjoy going on ride alongs. While I don't get involved like they do, its good to go out with them, and see how they handle the various things that they're confronted with. Its certainly not an easy job being an LEO and I give them a ton of credit for what they do.

Mike

 

[Andy Moynihan]

And, this of course, is a ploy by the media to show people what they "should do".

Well, come on, Brinks Home Security would never sell any alarms if it became known that criminals don't care about hearing them go off, now could they?

Untrustworthy things, computers. Passwords and power outages and "glitches" and cut wires and no actual physical deterrent and all.

My security systems, you just oil.

 

[Darth F.Takeda]

If he is in my house, falling down the stairs will be the least of his worries, as he will allready be dead as his body tumbles down them.

 

[sgtmac_46]

I think its beneficial for both sides to see what the other does, and you're 100% correct...it gives a feel. Likewise, thats one of the reasons I enjoy going on ride alongs. While I don't get involved like they do, its good to go out with them, and see how they handle the various things that they're confronted with. Its certainly not an easy job being an LEO and I give them a ton of credit for what they do.

Mike

One trait i've noticed about good dispatchers is that they always seem to be one step ahead of the officer working the road.....they have the ability to anticipate what he's going to need before you even have to ask. It's like a 'Radar O'Reilly' kind of 6th Sense where they always seem to know what you're going to ask for before you do....and when you get on the radio and make a request, most of the time they've already done it. That kind of dispatcher is a TREAT to work with!

They're also the dispatchers who know exactly which questions to ask the callers first, because they KNOW what the officer is going to ask them!

 

[Guardian]

If I look at this reasonably, then I would stay upstairs and shut the door and dial 911 and wait for a response, now if he/she should come up those stairs, then their gone with my shotgun in hand pure and simple because they have crossed the line of no return by coming up the stairs.

If you live in a single floor home, like I do, putting my wife on the floor on her side of the bed (I sleep on the door side/protection for her wise) with her pistol and I would take a kneeling position on my side with my shotgun and she dials 911 while we wait to see if he/she is stupid enough to darken our bedroom door and then that's all she wrote also.

 

[jks9199]

Bear in mind I'm only dropping the phone because someone is attempting to crash my barricade which if the responding officer has been told by the dispatcher that I have barricaded myself, he probably won't do without announcing some form of police presence which upon recognition that it is a police officer, the game becomes I eject the magazine, extract the chambered round, lock open the slide and put the forty-five away from me and then notify the officer I am coming out slowly with my hands leading.

And if the dispatcher is a good dispatcher, the responding officer WILL know who's who because among the first things out of my mouth will be "when the officer arrives, tell him not to shoot the guy with a red lightstick around his neck--that's me".(Yes, some of us have thought this through).

While it helps me to know that the homeowner/victim is wearing a red shirt or whatever -- we're still treating a guy with a gun as if they're the suspect. And if you don't comply with our directions, you may be shot.

If you say that it is much better everywhere else, I just happen to live int eh worst place in the country for 911 service I would believe. Why would I believe you?

1) You are in the business I am not. You would have information I would not.

2) I know the people they have to choose from for the jobs around here.

So, like I said no disrespect. I have bed examples in everything I do. Be it interface with the police or with the border patrol or Homeland security or 911.

Rich, I'm not trying to be insulting -- but it seems that there's a pattern in your encounters. You might look at why it seems to happen that way so often for you. Sometimes, we have to realize that we are part of the problem. For example, you used a phonetic alphabet to spell out the name of the street; that can be great. Or it can be confusing as hell, especially if there's no warning that phonetics are coming, or it's a unique set of choices. I once gave a tag out using a military phonetic, foxtrot, for the letter F. I confused the new dispatcher; she didn't know if I was giving F or FT. Not her fault -- mine.

I do not feel my decision to use deadly force in defense of family is expressly or impliedly based on a conclusion that the police or 911 are incompetent or uncaring.

Actually, both in this region are quite good. On very busy nights, a 911 call can be put on hold. I was told this by a 911 operator 6 days ago. There just are not enough staff to immediately address every call.

Is 911 at fault? No.

But by the same token...Sorry, but when my girls' lives are threatened, no I can't hold. Their sole hope of living through the night may be what's its been since the country was founded - their father's ability and willingness to kill a murderous intruder.

I think it unreasonable to expect that police can be everywhere or prevent every crime. Even with a crack organization, there are staffng considerations, other calls coming in, weather, transit time....... and during all of that a bloodthirsty burglar can kill my children.... well, unless I get him (them) first. Hope it never comes to that.

Very well said; YOUR safety begins with YOU. Most law enforcement agencies do their best -- but the truth is that we can't be everywhere, and we are primarily REACTIVE. Cops come when you call them; they don't generally knock on doors asking if there's a burglary or robbery happening right now.

I've been a cop for 11 years....before that I was a dispatcher for 2 years. There are a lot of good dispatchers....of course even as a cop, there are a few dispatchers you hate to hear working your shift.

Dispatching is a tough job, and not for everyone....I wouldn't want to do it again, it's stressful....I thought it was more stressful than working the road....in the sense of negative stress.

I've come to appreciate truly talented dispatchers, who have a feel for the job and what it requires.

As much as I hate it -- I think it's very beneficial that I've had to dispatch. I know what it's like to be fielding several calls at once, with some cop on the radio taking 5 minutes to get out that everything's fine. And I've been the cop on the street waiting for a return or information that feels like it's taking hours to come through -- when it's only a minute or two.

 

[MA-Caver]

While it helps me to know that the homeowner/victim is wearing a red shirt or whatever -- we're still treating a guy with a gun as if they're the suspect. And if you don't comply with our directions, you may be shot.

Well that's understandable... but hopefully the dispatcher will inform you the man with the gun might be deaf and thus won't be able to hear your instructions/directions... so please take that into account.
With roughly 20 million deaf people in this country... it could happen someday.

 

[jks9199]

Well that's understandable... but hopefully the dispatcher will inform you the man with the gun might be deaf and thus won't be able to hear your instructions/directions... so please take that into account.
With roughly 20 million deaf people in this country... it could happen someday.

Been there, done that. It's a challenge... but the general rule is simple. If you got guys in cop uniforms pointing guns at you, drop your gun. Put your hands up. Because if you move at all aggressively, I'm going to assume that you mean to do me harm. And I WILL go home at the end of my shift.

 

[Rich Parsons]

Rich, I'm not trying to be insulting -- but it seems that there's a pattern in your encounters. You might look at why it seems to happen that way so often for you. Sometimes, we have to realize that we are part of the problem. For example, you used a phonetic alphabet to spell out the name of the street; that can be great. Or it can be confusing as hell, especially if there's no warning that phonetics are coming, or it's a unique set of choices. I once gave a tag out using a military phonetic, foxtrot, for the letter F. I confused the new dispatcher; she didn't know if I was giving F or FT. Not her fault -- mine.

JKS,

While I understand the pattern effect. I stated the name of the street. I then said I will spell it. I then told her that I could repeat it if required.

Also see how I get treated in person by customs and going through borders.

I know the problem is mine in the end. I know too much. I do not scream and or get upset easily. I am not the normal call that they get that needs help. But every time I get upset, or I get out of control or speak incoherently they seem to then take action. But if you can still react with adrenaline in your body then they seem to think you are not for real.

 

[MA-Caver]

Been there, done that. It's a challenge... but the general rule is simple. If you got guys in cop uniforms pointing guns at you, drop your gun. Put your hands up. Because if you move at all aggressively, I'm going to assume that you mean to do me harm. And I WILL go home at the end of my shift.

Hey relax will ya? No need to shout... what do you think I am... deaf? wink2: )
Point is that if your dispatcher notifies you that there are hearing impaired people in residence at the location then take to understanding that they're not gonna hear you no matter how loud you shout TURN AROUND! GET ON THE GROUND NOW! Also they may not necessarily let go of their weapon immediately unless they see you and identify you as a cop. Pointing your flash lights in their faces is a good way for YOU to get shot, because for all they know it's a second burglar. Thus turning on the house lights so that you're clearly identified helps THEM as well.
You are going to have to communicate nonverbally to get your message across! Thus by letting them SEE your weapon and pointing at them then point to the ground and make a palm flat motion they should get the idea.
But if their back is turned, if they are to their side with most of their back to you then they are going to HAVE to turn around to SEE you to SEE what you are saying to them.
Not all can read lips very well. But ALL do understand a finger pointing to the floor and the palm spreading flat out.

As much as it would please you to get home alive I'm sure it would please you even more not to have to shoot an innocent.

 

[shesulsa]

Good point and experienced by a hearing person - pulled over, flashlight in eyes, asked for documents. I stated I would comply as soon as I could visibly identify I was talking to a uniformed officer of the law. Did I want to be arrested? No, but I have the right as a citizen to verify that he was indeed an officer of the law.

Great cop - he took the light out of my eyes and shined it on his badge, then his face. I thanked him and asked him to give me light on my purse so I could pull out the documents. He did and everything was fine.

I'm not like Rich, though - I was a young Caucasian female driving a newer Ford Escort. LA cops, I guess. :shrug:

 

[Mark L]

My children's bedrooms are at diverse locations around the house. No matter where an intruder is, when I'm in bed they're between me and one of my children. I'm not going to close my door and wait for rescue. I'm not going to loiter to make a phone call (though it will be a great use of my wife's time). IFF comes first (Identification Friend or Foe), don't want to club the kids. For the presented scenario, I'm going to do everything I can to nullify the threat, with great prejudice.

I don't keep firearms, but I do have a beautiful ax handle at my bedside. There's also an assortment of bo's, sticks, and sai's piled in most corners, readily accessible. My wife finds the decor annoying, I think it's exquisitely done.

 

[fireman00]

a.) Open bedroom door.
b.) Let angry, 95lb dog out of bedroom.
c.) Close bedroom door.
d.) call 911.... after 10 minutes.

 

[morph4me]

My children's bedrooms are at diverse locations around the house. No matter where an intruder is, when I'm in bed they're between me and one of my children. I'm not going to close my door and wait for rescue. I'm not going to loiter to make a phone call (though it will be a great use of my wife's time). IFF comes first (Identification Friend or Foe), don't want to club the kids. For the presented scenario, I'm going to do everything I can to nullify the threat, with great prejudice.

My layout is a little better, and my kids know enough to let me know it's them when they come in, as for nullifying the threat with great prejudice, I'm with you.

I don't keep firearms, but I do have a beautiful ax handle at my bedside. There's also an assortment of bo's, sticks, and sai's piled in most corners, readily accessible. My wife finds the decor annoying, I think it's exquisitely done.

Yeah, some people shouldn't own firearms because of their temprament, and I happen to be one of them so we probably have similar decors

 

[Andy Moynihan]

While it helps me to know that the homeowner/victim is wearing a red shirt or whatever -- we're still treating a guy with a gun as if they're the suspect. And if you don't comply with our directions, you may be shot.

And I totally understand that, which is the reason why as you note in the post, I have disarmed before opening the door for the responding officers with my empty hands leading slowly.

Another poster made the point of if business had already been taken care of to wait kneeling with the hands on head thing until it's sorted out who's who, which also bears considering.

But don't worry, either way I'm *not* dumb enough to still have a weapon in my hand if I know I'm gonna have to talk to LEO's that are on their way.

 

[sgtmac_46]

Well that's understandable... but hopefully the dispatcher will inform you the man with the gun might be deaf and thus won't be able to hear your instructions/directions... so please take that into account.
With roughly 20 million deaf people in this country... it could happen someday.

Then it might be a good public service announcement to all those 20 million deaf people.....that when they see cops running around, it might be a good idea to put the gun down......because, though uniformed cops won't know you're deaf just by looking at you, you SHOULD know they're uniformed cops just by 'looking' at them.

Deaf doesn't mean stupid......and like I tell cops at the range about running around PLAIN CLOTHES with a gun....the BURDEN is on YOU to make sure, if you're packing a gun, to take steps to be aware of when the uniforms arrive on scene....because they know who they are and you know who they are......but they may have NO WAY of knowing who in the heck YOU ARE!