What styles contribute to this new XMA craze?

zDom

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The vast majority of the XMA competitors DO have a strong traditional base (though I am sure there are some glaring exceptions).

I must only be seeing the "glaring exceptions" because the XMA competitors I've seen all seem to have significant problems with their basics.

YMMV.
 

Twin Fist

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I despise XMA

yes, the feats are impressive.

go do them in a gymnastic competition. leave it our of my karate, thank you
 

clfsean

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I must only be seeing the "glaring exceptions" because the XMA competitors I've seen all seem to have significant problems with their basics.

YMMV.

Nope you're not alone...
 

clfsean

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I see nothing wrong with XMA for the advanced kids and teens as a bonus after they're regular curiculum has been worked hard and is solid. Basically dessert after a well balanced meal. In my school, we have a XPT (extreme performance training: our version of XMA) class that they learn competition weapons (tournament-style kama, nunchaku, bo and broadsword on a three month rotation. Our normal curriculum consists of the FMA's for weapons training.) and these aeriel "tricks".

Ok but where's the basic training for non FMA weapons? If there's a strong traditional background, where'd the basics for OMA/CMA weaponry come from if you don't mind answering?

If you're also training in/teaching FMA, why not have them go out & do doble baston or espada y daga XMA style?
 
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Sylo

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I was on sportsmartialarts.com looking through the results for the various NASKA national tournaments. I don't think I saw one person in any of those results, that won the grand championship title having done only traditional forms.

This is what I am talking about. In order to win, you must do the flips and 540 kicks. Yes there are divisions for traditional, but the overrall winners are always the XMA people.

I don't mind "creative" forms... but I still want them traditionally grounded. I just think gymnastics in martial arts should be saved for the movies. Basically I will never be able to win any of these tournaments regardless of how great a martial artist I am, unless I can do 3 360 back flips like those 15 year old kids are doing.
 

Flying Crane

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I don't think I saw one person in any of those results, that won the grand championship title having done only traditional forms.

This is what I am talking about. In order to win, you must do the flips and 540 kicks. Yes there are divisions for traditional, but the overrall winners are always the XMA people.

I don't mind "creative" forms... but I still want them traditionally grounded. I just think gymnastics in martial arts should be saved for the movies. Basically I will never be able to win any of these tournaments regardless of how great a martial artist I am, unless I can do 3 360 back flips like those 15 year old kids are doing.

well, look at what is being "won". Do you feel left out? What does it really mean? What value does it hold, outside of that competition hall?

Personally, I don't need it.
 
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Sylo

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well, look at what is being "won". Do you feel left out? What does it really mean? What value does it hold, outside of that competition hall?

Personally, I don't need it.


Whats being won? Recognition. If I've trained and spent all the time perfecting my art. Whats wrong with me wanting to get out and get some recognition for it? I'm saying that its not fair to judge them in any way in comparison to someone doing ALL traditional style forms. There should be an overall XMA winner and an overall traditional winner. How many traditional martial arts schools teach gymnastics as a requirement? It'd be like going to an MMA fight, doing traditional martial arts. Your going to get your **** handed to you. In more ways than one.

Look up..

Lauren Kearney, Casey Marks, Josh Quartin, Becca Ross, Caitlin Dechelle, Matt Emig, etc. if you look at any of the major tournament circuits. you'll see these same names over and over. Some of them actually DO, do traditional forms.. but they'd never have the championships they do if they stuck to only that.
 

clfsean

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Whats being won? Recognition. If I've trained and spent all the time perfecting my art. Whats wrong with me wanting to get out and get some recognition for it? I'm saying that its not fair to judge them in any way in comparison to someone doing ALL traditional style forms. There should be an overall XMA winner and an overall traditional winner. How many traditional martial arts schools teach gymnastics as a requirement? It'd be like going to an MMA fight, doing traditional martial arts. Your going to get your **** handed to you. In more ways than one.

Then compete in traditional only tournaments.

Look up..

Lauren Kearney, Casey Marks, Josh Quartin, Becca Ross, Caitlin Dechelle, Matt Emig, etc. if you look at any of the major tournament circuits. you'll see these same names over and over. Some of them actually DO, do traditional forms.. but they'd never have the championships they do if they stuck to only that.

Do they compete in tournaments with XMA there like the Battle of Atlanta or an of the NASKA type tournaments? Do they compete in AAU, JKA, etc... traditional only tournaments?

I don't know & don't pretend to, but I betcha they compete in the circuit tournies that have an XMA division so the name bleeds over where it's "ok" if you "spice" up Seiunchin or Hangsetsu or Fu Hok Seurng Ying Kuen or other TMA sets.
 
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Sylo

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Isn't NASKA the major player in the tournament circuit?

They have traditional divisions. I went and looked at the US open divisions and they indeed have both extreme and traditional divisions.

Problem is.. they are not scored seperately when it comes down to it. There is still an overall winner, and no matter how one tries to win with traditional forms.. they never will.

What are the major circuits in fully traditional tournaments? I've never seen any on ESPN. The last time I saw any legit martial arts tournaments up until now on a major television network. Was like 15 years ago when I saw an Isshinryu (sp) tournament on ESPN.
 

Flying Crane

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Whats being won? Recognition. If I've trained and spent all the time perfecting my art. Whats wrong with me wanting to get out and get some recognition for it?

Whose recognition do you need?

I'm not saying you shouldn't compete, if that is what you want. As CLFSEAN mentioned, just compete in traditional-only tournaments, and compare apples with apples.

I have competed in a number of traditional CHinese tournaments here in California over the years, in forms. We are a separate division from the Modern Wushu competition which happens in the same tournament, and we have our own "All Around Champion", which is the overall best in three forms competitions: empty hand; short weapon; long weapon. I've done well in these tournaments, I've even been All Around Champion three times. I was never interested in competition. I only competed because my sifu wanted me to (but did not force me to), so I competed to support him. Really, I found it kind of fun, and interesting to meet people and see what they were doing. But competition itself was never a big interest for me. And you know what? Nobody recognizes me for this. Not even when I go back to the tournament the next year. Nobody says, "hey, you were the champion last year! I remember that! I've been working all year and I hope I can beat you this year!" Nobody comes flocking to me trying to become my student. It just doesn't happen. Nobody remembers, nobody cares, it's all for fun anyway.

So compete if you want to, it can be fun, it can be educational, but keep it in perspective. But look for the right venue, and don't worry about the rest, and don't expect to gain any reputation or recognition from it. That list of people you mentioned, I've never heard of any of them. I guess they compete in a circuit I don't pay attention to. Heck, I don't even know who I compete against from one year to the next. I remember a few people, "hey, you are a student of Sifu So-and-So, I remember you from last year, how are ya doing? Good to see you. What's your name again? What's your style?" Repeat introductions the next year...

That's about as far as it goes.
 

Flying Crane

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Isn't NASKA the major player in the tournament circuit?

...

What are the major circuits in fully traditional tournaments? I've never seen any on ESPN. The last time I saw any legit martial arts tournaments up until now on a major television network. Was like 15 years ago when I saw an Isshinryu (sp) tournament on ESPN.

ah, sounds like you are looking at the martial arts as your meal ticket?

If you are hoping that tournament success will bring fame and fortune, just understand that for the vast majority of people, this is a very very very very very very unlikely road. Go for it if that is your dream. But that is an uphill battle...I wouldn't suggest you quit your day-job just yet.
 
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Sylo

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ah, sounds like you are looking at the martial arts as your meal ticket?

If you are hoping that tournament success will bring fame and fortune, just understand that for the vast majority of people, this is a very very very very very very unlikely road. Go for it if that is your dream. But that is an uphill battle...I wouldn't suggest you quit your day-job just yet.


I'm not looking at it that way. I'm just trying to figure out why this other stuff is garnering so much attention. One major thing that bothers me.. is one of the funnest aspects about going to an "open" tournament. Is to see different styles of martial arts in the same place. Unfortunately, XMA looks the same no matter what art your based in. Every single form I have watched looks exactly the same. You can't distinguish one art from another.

I guess I am looking for something that just doesn't exist anymore. its all about being over the top now.

I'm just gonna train, and do my thing and not worry about it.
 

Flying Crane

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I'm just trying to figure out why this other stuff is garnering so much attention.

ah, that is a good question. I think it's just the "flash and wow!" aspects of it. It is physically impressive to see. But for those of us who know better, we can see that it is hollow flash with little substance. But the masses wish to be entertained, and this is just the thing to do it. Personally, I don't like the idea of martial arts as entertainment for the masses. That's just not what it is to me. It was never meant to be entertainment. Once upon a time, it was meant to be what stood between death and yourself and your family and your village. It was a method of killing, very quickly and very efficiently. It was held as a secret, because you don't want you enemy to know just how much you do or do not know.

But nowadays, it's been degraded to little more than entertainment value. Well, let XMA fill that niche. Those of us who have seen a lot of this kind of showboating don't find it all that impressive anymore anyway. So let the masses have their entertainment, and let them think this is martial arts, but those of us who know better have a valuable secret. Let the masses be mislead, I say.

One major thing that bothers me.. is one of the funnest aspects about going to an "open" tournament. Is to see different styles of martial arts in the same place. Unfortunately, XMA looks the same no matter what art your based in. Every single form I have watched looks exactly the same. You can't distinguish one art from another.

Now you are catching on. See my rant above.

I guess I am looking for something that just doesn't exist anymore. its all about being over the top now.

It does exist, perhaps just not on as large a scale. After all, traditional martial arts aren't such good entertainment for the masses. So these traditional tournaments are often smaller, and local, and don't get much (or any) media attention. Personally, I prefer it that way.

I'm just gonna train, and do my thing and not worry about it.

there's the real answer, and nothing else matters.
 
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Sylo

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ah, that is a good question. I think it's just the "flash and wow!" aspects of it. It is physically impressive to see. But for those of us who know better, we can see that it is hollow flash with little substance. But the masses wish to be entertained, and this is just the thing to do it. Personally, I don't like the idea of martial arts as entertainment for the masses. That's just not what it is to me. It was never meant to be entertainment. Once upon a time, it was meant to be what stood between death and yourself and your family and your village. It was a method of killing, very quickly and very efficiently. It was held as a secret, because you don't want you enemy to know just how much you do or do not know.

But nowadays, it's been degraded to little more than entertainment value. Well, let XMA fill that niche. Those of us who have seen a lot of this kind of showboating don't find it all that impressive anymore anyway. So let the masses have their entertainment, and let them think this is martial arts, but those of us who know better have a valuable secret. Let the masses be mislead, I say.



Now you are catching on. See my rant above.



It does exist, perhaps just not on as large a scale. After all, traditional martial arts aren't such good entertainment for the masses. So these traditional tournaments are often smaller, and local, and don't get much (or any) media attention. Personally, I prefer it that way.



there's the real answer, and nothing else matters.


You were saying something about the traditional sanctioning bodies... what were they?
 

Flying Crane

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You were saying something about the traditional sanctioning bodies... what were they?

No, I actually don't know. A lot of the traditional tournaments are small and local, altho they may belong to a group or something, but I've never really paid any attention to that. The one I attend here is held at the UC Berkeley campus, and my sifu is a sponsor of it thru the UC Berkeley martial arts program. I guess it does sort of belong to a circuit of some kind, but I don't think it's really big, and doesn't get mainstream media attention. But I don't think all the the traditional tournaments have any real sanctioning bodies. They may just be sponsored by one particular school, or a small group of local schools or something. I am only really aware of the one here because of my sifu's involvement with it. Otherwise I wouldn't even be aware of that one.

I've heard of things like the Tiger Claw International or something, I see their information in the martial arts magazines and stuff, but I don't know much about it. I think they are getting kind of big and probably have their own XMA section now, but I really don't know. I think the bigger the event, the more media attention, the more commercial it will be and you will probably not be happy with it. Look for local things, on a smaller scale, with a clear distinction between traditional and XMA or interpretive or creative divisions. Look for things that are likely to have less politics, and are more likely to simply be fun.
 
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