What martial art is best for a beginner, petite female working in a risky industry?

[ShortBridge]

We have some professional LEO here and I would defer to them, generally.

But, in most places, police departments have limits on this type of force. Videos of police punching citizens in the face with a fist don't go over very well with the public and chokes are not legal for police in many places. BJJ fans may say "well, they just don't do them right", but if they're not allowed by your perspective employers, I would focus on things that are.

Judo or Japanese JuJitsu might not be bad starts for you. I've trained several people in similar professions, but I'm not sure whether or not I would recommend Wing Chun broadly for police. Krav Maga comes to mind for me. I think it depends on how it's taught near you. Systema might be worth checking out if it's a local option for you.

To control a group or individual having the dual tools of confidence/authority and humor/humanity will a long way, but that's a tougher journey if it's not natural to you. I might seriously recommend taking an Improv comedy workshop if that's an option for you. The skills translate well to conflict resolution.

And get in shape! You don't have to be big, but get comfortable with yourself and condition for stress.

And...listen to people who have the jobs that you want...which is not me.

 

[JR 137]

We have some professional LEO here and I would defer to them, generally.

But, in most places, police departments have limits on this type of force. Videos of police punching citizens in the face with a fist don't go over very well with the public and chokes are not legal for police in many places. BJJ fans may say "well, they just don't do them right", but if they're not allowed by your perspective employers, I would focus on things that are.

Judo or Japanese JuJitsu might not be bad starts for you. I've trained several people in similar professions, but I'm not sure whether or not I would recommend Wing Chun broadly for police. Krav Maga comes to mind for me. I think it depends on how it's taught near you. Systema might be worth checking out if it's a local option for you.

To control a group or individual having the dual tools of confidence/authority and humor/humanity will a long way, but that's a tougher journey if it's not natural to you. I might seriously recommend taking an Improv comedy workshop if that's an option for you. The skills translate well to conflict resolution.

And get in shape! You don't have to be big, but get comfortable with yourself and condition for stress.

And...listen to people who have the jobs that you want...which is not me.

A friend who teaches DT at the local police academy told me he finds wrestlers and boxers typically do quite well in training. He said beyond physical skills, they typically have the right “never give up” mental toughness mindset which he thinks is one of the biggest determining factors.

For what it’s worth.

 

[Headhunter]

I just mean, it's not always about working harder but working smarter.

If you want to get good you have to work hard or you may as well stay home

 

[Headhunter]

Any style....most people will come on here and say their own style but any style can work for anyone. Just choose and turn up

 

[drop bear]

Can you explain to me—I would genuinely like to understand... how does BJJ end a fight? So say someone assaults a woman, she has studied BJJ, and she locks him up in a position. I’m assuming they’re not all choke out positions. What then? What if no one’s around and he doesn’t pass out? I’ve never learned ground game, so I really just have no clue what happens then.

Gravity is a superpower. So if I sit on you I have more control of the fight.

So for example I could just punch you and you would pretty much have to sit there and take it.

 

[drop bear]

Any style....most people will come on here and say their own style but any style can work for anyone. Just choose and turn up

No.

 

[oftheherd1]

First, welcome to MT. As you see, advice is easy to get here.

Realistically, and I know this might not be a popular opinion here, but for a smaller woman only BJJ will give you a real chance against someone both bigger and stronger than you.

I've never studied BJJ nor Judo, so my opinion of them needs to be taken with that in mind. But my thought is that BJJ wants to go to the ground too often. Any BJJ practitioners please correct me if I am wrong. From what I have seen of Judo, that is not true. Both teach a lot of joint manipulation which can be good.

Can you tell us what arts are taught close enough for you to easily go to them?

I've always believed working smarter means doing what you can without feeling drained or using more energy than required. So yes, of course I agree, working smart is by no means expecting easy. Although I'm aware some martial arts are easier than others

I am not aware of any martial art that is 'easier' than others. Maybe you mean something different by easy than I understand. As far as I am aware, all MA will require commitment and hard work to learn to a point they will be useful to you. To do otherwise could in fact, be dangerous from over confidence.

I think @Tez is correct that you should expect training specific to your job. My impression from those in those fields is that most officers don't want to spend off duty time ensuring they really know how to use what they are taught, to the point it is second nature. They should. And you may wish to supplement your training by MA training anyway. It can be enjoyable in its own right.

But advice usually given here, which is good advice, is to visit different schools in your area and see what art interests you most, and which school makes you feel most comfortable and able to learn in (students and instructors).

 

[drop bear]

I've never studied BJJ nor Judo, so my opinion of them needs to be taken with that in mind. But my thought is that BJJ wants to go to the ground too often. Any BJJ practitioners please correct me if I am wrong. From what I have seen of Judo, that is not true. Both teach a lot of joint manipulation which can be good.

Can you tell us what arts are taught close enough for you to easily go to them?

Kind of sort of.
It is a really complicated discussion. Ultimately if you wanted to not die when pinned under someone you have to train there. Now you can either be dangerous from the bottom or super elusive.

At an elite level.
BJJ makes you dangerous from the bottom. But you are more inclined to hang out there. So a guy with a slick top game can use that to beat you up.

There are wrestling versions that will make you super elusive on the ground. And give you a devastating top game. But you don't do submissions.

And there is this progression of either pulling guard or sitting out and standing up.

And MMA of course uses elements from both depending on the skill set of the fighter.

But at your average hack level most people won't be able to hold a BJJer on the deck and a wrestler will just pull your head off. So for self defense it is not as big a deal as people think.

BJJ is a bit easier generally wrestling will make you tougher generally.

 

[JR 137]

Can you explain to me—I would genuinely like to understand... how does BJJ end a fight? So say someone assaults a woman, she has studied BJJ, and she locks him up in a position. I’m assuming they’re not all choke out positions. What then? What if no one’s around and he doesn’t pass out? I’ve never learned ground game, so I really just have no clue what happens then.

BJJ wants to end the fight with a choke or a joint lock. With that joint lock you can do two things...
1. Restrain them by using pain compliance until you’ve got backup/someone arrives.

2. Dislocate or break the joint. Dislocate someone’s elbow or knee, and they’re going to be in a world of hurt and unable to fight. No from BJJ, but I’ve seen elbow and knee dislocations. They’re certainly not pretty.

The tapout is when the person knows the opponent has that joint lock in right and will do some damage if they don’t stop.

Note: By knee dislocation, I mean the actual knee and not the knee cap. I’ve seen plenty of knee cap dislocations too though.

 

[Bill Mattocks]

Going to the ground is bad for cops and we don't do it if we can avoid it (I'm former, not current). And understand that our hips are where our weapons are, so we want to avoid getting arrestees anywhere near there. It's a whole different set of problems, most don't experience the issues.

 

[jobo]

Can you explain to me—I would genuinely like to understand... how does BJJ end a fight? So say someone assaults a woman, she has studied BJJ, and she locks him up in a position. I’m assuming they’re not all choke out positions. What then? What if no one’s around and he doesn’t pass out? I’ve never learned ground game, so I really just have no clue what happens then.

but that the question that the cheer leader for bjj and small female s don't want to answer, incapacitating a large male may be possible or it may not, but then what, how long do you lie there holding an arm bar, before you let go and he attacks you again.

 

[JR 137]

but that the question that the cheer leader for bjj and small female s don't want to answer, incapacitating a large male may be possible or it may not, but then what, how long do you lie there holding an arm bar, before you let go and he attacks you again.

Absolutely. But I’m a BJJ anti-fanboy and have this...

As a striker, what happens when the attacker laughs after you’ve hit him with everything but the kitchen sink?

I’ve laughed at a few people who’ve hit me with everything they had. Those always ended up exactly how I wanted at the time - either I let them walk away with a pride sprain or I taught them a lesson in how to throw a punch.

Practically everything can work and practically nothing will work. It all depends on the person.

 

[jobo]

Absolutely. But I’m a BJJ anti-fanboy and have this...

As a striker, what happens when the attacker laughs after you’ve hit him with everything but the kitchen sink?

I’ve laughed at a few people who’ve hit me with everything they had. Those always ended up exactly how I wanted at the time - either I let them walk away with a pride sprain or I taught them a lesson in how to throw a punch.

Practically everything can work and practically nothing will work. It all depends on the person.

Yes they are all flawed, for that very reason, it depends not just on the person, but on the persons involved, which is why I can't see an imediatei benifit of bjj over a good few other arts

 

[JR 137]

Yes they are all flawed, for that very reason, it depends not just on the person, but on the persons involved, which is why I can't see an imediatei benifit of bjj over a good few other arts

I weigh 225 lbs. I’ve been effectively thrown by people half my weight in wrestling. And they’ve been able to follow the up with things. If you teach someone much smaller than me how to throw and follow up with a choke or joint lock, they’ve got a better chance of doing that than knocking me out. I’ve never been hurt by a punch from a jockey sized guy.

That doesn’t mean every 100 lb waif has a good chance of throwing me and choking me out. Not even close. But they’ve got a better chance of that than standing toe to toe and trading punches with me.

 

[jobo]

I weigh 225 lbs. I’ve been effectively thrown by people half my weight in wrestling. And they’ve been able to follow the up with things. If you teach someone much smaller than me how to throw and follow up with a choke or joint lock, they’ve got a better chance of doing that than knocking me out. I’ve never been hurt by a punch from a jockey sized guy.

That doesn’t mean every 100 lb waif has a good chance of throwing me and choking me out. Not even close. But they’ve got a better chance of that than standing toe to toe and trading punches with me.

Well yes, but I'm hopeful that you don't go around, punching 100lb women, what if it's a 200lbs male that cant punch and is slow on his feet, wack him in the thigh with a MT KICK t slow him down some more and leg it, sounds PREFERABLE to going in to his advantage of using his strength and weight against you,
There's to many if, buts and maybes to say definitely bbj is the best for a small female and there's other arts hat have throws and holds,

 

[dvcochran]

but that the question that the cheer leader for bjj and small female s don't want to answer, incapacitating a large male may be possible or it may not, but then what, how long do you lie there holding an arm bar, before you let go and he attacks you again.

I agree. I think a lot of people have forgotten the OP said she is small in stature. That is why said earlier she needs to learn the mental side of the game more than "quickly learning a martial art". I do not think she is going at this the right way.

 

[JR 137]

Well yes, but I'm hopeful that you don't go around, punching 100lb women, what if it's a 200lbs male that cant punch and is slow on his feet, wack him in the thigh with a MT KICK t slow him down some more and leg it, sounds PREFERABLE to going in to his advantage of using his strength and weight against you,
There's to many if, buts and maybes to say definitely bbj is the best for a small female and there's other arts hat have throws and holds,

Way too many ifs. I didn’t suggest BJJ, I said Judo would be a good art when someone else said BJJ.

Actually, I said pick a place where you like the instructor and classmates, and keep showing up.

 

[jobo]

Way too many ifs. I didn’t suggest BJJ, I said Judo would be a good art when someone else said BJJ.

Actually, I said pick a place where you like the instructor and classmates, and keep showing up.

And I said, the people recommending bjj were fan boys, as that didn't include you, I'm not sure why your debating the point with me,

NB, I'm not sure judo is necersarily a better choice, but I'm sticking with my bjj issue at the moment

 

[Bill Mattocks]

I am not going to post anything that is against Judo or BJJ, I don't intend to start a war. I will state that in my opinion, LE has requirements that are not as conducive to ground games as one might think.

For one thing, a LEO typically has a small arsenal of weapons on their waist. All of these are designed to be deployed quickly, which means they can be removed from the belt fairly easily. We do not want to be closing with a person whose hands are not yet secured or is facing us. Drunks try to grab guns, sorry, it's a fact. We don't want them anywhere near our weaponry. That meant for me in the old days, I'd use my Monadnock to club a drunk who reached for my gun. I'd drop him like a baby seal and no mercy either. He gets my gun, I'm done.

Second, even if you know how to fall correctly, it can be damned difficult to do it safely on asphalt, gravel, ice, snow, blood, or whatever you find yourself standing on. And then you have to worry about falling ONTO things which are sharp and pointy, like guns, handcuffs, cans of pepper spray, radios, etc, etc.

Third, stuff goes flying. Watch a cop fight video sometimes when it goes to ground. Please note that typically the cop does not voluntarily go to ground unless he's on the suspect's back in a kneeling position. And even then, his stuff goes flying everywhere, from hat to badge to radio and even sometimes his or her gun.

Fourth, sometimes more than one suspect. Great way to get kicked in the head by bad guy's drunken buddy who thinks he's helping his buddy out. Even passersby who are TRYING TO HELP can get decked because we don't know why a person without blue sleeves is trying to pry something loose. Not that we hate good Samaritans, but we don't know who is who unless they're wearing a badge.

Fifth, most departments these days forbid the use of choke holds. There are lots of things that a civilian can do to defend themselves that are forbidden to cops.

Sixth, we don't fight fair because we cannot lose. Losing is not really permitted. So if Jojo the dogfaced boy reaches for us to bring us into a clinch, he's going to get his hands broken with a night stick. Ball up a fist and try to throw hands, get a stick in the face. Not fair? Too bad, don't attack cops and you don't get mussed up. Get your hands on one of our weapons and we shoot lots of holes in you. That's how that game is played. Civilians do not like to hear about it, but it's true.

There are some rules to cop self-defense, because it's a different game for us (again, formerly in my case) than for most. We have to engage, most civilians can and should walk away. We often engage groups, so it's not a one-on-one thing. Macho don't enter into it, it's about making an apprehension and ending the danger to the public. Speed of apprehension is much more important than the attacker's safety. And lastly, we do this far too often. Our job is to end the danger, make the arrest, do the paperwork and GO HOME SAFELY. Attack a cop, you get what you get. Not trying to hurt you, but you not hurting me is much more important at that moment.

Go to the ground? Not if I can help it. Does it help to have a ground game? Absolutely, because sometimes you can't help going to the ground. But my first go to is verbal. "Ask 'em, tell 'em, take 'em." If that doesn't work, it's hands-on. If they do not cooperate, it's time to apply some come-along type moves. They go fistic on you, deploy weapons, and Hell comes with me.

 

[dvcochran]

I am not going to post anything that is against Judo or BJJ, I don't intend to start a war. I will state that in my opinion, LE has requirements that are not as conducive to ground games as one might think.

For one thing, a LEO typically has a small arsenal of weapons on their waist. All of these are designed to be deployed quickly, which means they can be removed from the belt fairly easily. We do not want to be closing with a person whose hands are not yet secured or is facing us. Drunks try to grab guns, sorry, it's a fact. We don't want them anywhere near our weaponry. That meant for me in the old days, I'd use my Monadnock to club a drunk who reached for my gun. I'd drop him like a baby seal and no mercy either. He gets my gun, I'm done.

Second, even if you know how to fall correctly, it can be damned difficult to do it safely on asphalt, gravel, ice, snow, blood, or whatever you find yourself standing on. And then you have to worry about falling ONTO things which are sharp and pointy, like guns, handcuffs, cans of pepper spray, radios, etc, etc.

Third, stuff goes flying. Watch a cop fight video sometimes when it goes to ground. Please note that typically the cop does not voluntarily go to ground unless he's on the suspect's back in a kneeling position. And even then, his stuff goes flying everywhere, from hat to badge to radio and even sometimes his or her gun.

Fourth, sometimes more than one suspect. Great way to get kicked in the head by bad guy's drunken buddy who thinks he's helping his buddy out. Even passersby who are TRYING TO HELP can get decked because we don't know why a person without blue sleeves is trying to pry something loose. Not that we hate good Samaritans, but we don't know who is who unless they're wearing a badge.

Fifth, most departments these days forbid the use of choke holds. There are lots of things that a civilian can do to defend themselves that are forbidden to cops.

Sixth, we don't fight fair because we cannot lose. Losing is not really permitted. So if Jojo the dogfaced boy reaches for us to bring us into a clinch, he's going to get his hands broken with a night stick. Ball up a fist and try to throw hands, get a stick in the face. Not fair? Too bad, don't attack cops and you don't get mussed up. Get your hands on one of our weapons and we shoot lots of holes in you. That's how that game is played. Civilians do not like to hear about it, but it's true.

There are some rules to cop self-defense, because it's a different game for us (again, formerly in my case) than for most. We have to engage, most civilians can and should walk away. We often engage groups, so it's not a one-on-one thing. Macho don't enter into it, it's about making an apprehension and ending the danger to the public. Speed of apprehension is much more important than the attacker's safety. And lastly, we do this far too often. Our job is to end the danger, make the arrest, do the paperwork and GO HOME SAFELY. Attack a cop, you get what you get. Not trying to hurt you, but you not hurting me is much more important at that moment.

Go to the ground? Not if I can help it. Does it help to have a ground game? Absolutely, because sometimes you can't help going to the ground. But my first go to is verbal. "Ask 'em, tell 'em, take 'em." If that doesn't work, it's hands-on. If they do not cooperate, it's time to apply some come-along type moves. They go fistic on you, deploy weapons, and Hell comes with me.

Very well said.