What is neo-historical Wing Chun?

Svarog

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Hi guys, I've made a new channel to explore the neo-historical model of Wing Chun. Sorry for the poor quality video but it's my first.


I was wondering if there was any interest here in developing a model of WC by translating the historical evidence into modern science and putting it in the world of mixed martial arts, like was done with HEMA.

For historical evidence I'm primarily dependent upon what Hendrik Santos has presented, and I am wondering if anyone is familiar with his research. I'm really interested in discussing how the historical evidence can be used to reconstruct a model of WC, and am interested in making a slack or discord channel if people are interested.
There are no written documents about wing chun before 1950's. There are maybe few photos from republican period (early 1940's), but those have to be confirmed and properly dated by professionals. No other artefacts connected to wing chun exist. Those are the facts about wing chun historical evidence. Of course this doesn't mean we don't know anything about history pf the art but it is far from what is hendrik's story.
 

Hanzou

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Elements of Wing Chun have been part of MMA since before the first UFC event.

Were they present in the first UFC events? The only one I recall was a WC practitioner getting his face turned into hamburger a few seconds after the opening bell.
 

geezer

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Were they present in the first UFC events? The only one I recall was a WC practitioner getting his face turned into hamburger a few seconds after the opening bell.
When he said "elements" I believe he was referring to WC-like techniques or strategies included in certain fighter's arsenals, and was not referring to particular fighters.

I have seen some fighters effectively use techniques that are in the WC arsenal ....but of course these same techniques are also found in many other fighting systems. Personally, I don't know of many fighters who claim to have taken techniques specifically from WC, but then I don't follow MMA closely.

It still seems to me like Boxing, Muay Thai, and BJJ/grappling are still the primary sources for functional MMA. Again, I'm pretty ignorant about this, so feel free to educate me! :)
 

geezer

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BTW the face into hamburger technique is also not specific to WC. Unfortunately many TMA systems teach that! :p
 

Hanzou

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When he said "elements" I believe he was referring to WC-like techniques or strategies included in certain fighter's arsenals, and was not referring to particular fighters.

I have seen some fighters effectively use techniques that are in the WC arsenal ....but of course these same techniques are also found in many other fighting systems. Personally, I don't know of many fighters who claim to have taken techniques specifically from WC, but then I don't follow MMA closely.

It still seems to me like Boxing, Muay Thai, and BJJ/grappling are still the primary sources for functional MMA. Again, I'm pretty ignorant about this, so feel free to educate me! :)

That would be the correct assessment. While I would personally enjoy seeing more systems enter MMA to mix things up a bit, the Kickboxing/BJJ/Wrestling paradigm remains dominant, and I see no indication of it ever changing.

People falsely believe that MMA-oriented folks are hostile towards traditional martial arts like Kung Fu. Quite the opposite really; most of us grew up on Bruce Lee and Kung Fu movies and would LOVE to see an MMA fighter enter the octagon and do some Mantis hooks, Monkey tumbling, or Tiger Claws and find some success. I'd be a very happy man to see someone fight like Donnie Yen in those Ip Man movies. Again, at this point I have my doubts, but I am still hopeful.

In short, get your stuff together and join us on the other side!
 

Kung Fu Wang

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When he said "elements" I believe he was referring to WC-like techniques or strategies included in certain fighter's arsenals, and was not referring to particular fighters.
I started to train "1 step 3 punches" since I was 11. It was very similar to the WC chain punches.

I first started with 3 straight punches. I then mixed straight punches with circular punches. Later on I realized that I was training principles. After I understood that, the term "style" no longer have any meaning to me.

When I throw jab-hook-uppercut combo, what MA style do I train? Is it important? It's not important.

In the following clip, whether he uses the WC chain punches principle or not is not important. Principle has no style boundary.

 
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Hanzou

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I started to train "1 step 3 punches" since I was 11. It was very similar to the WC chain punches.

I first started with 3 straight punches. I then mixed straight punches with circular punches. Later on I realized that I was training principles. After I understood that, the term "style" no longer have any meaning to me.

When I throw jab-hook-uppercut combo, what MA style do I train? Is it important? It's not important.

In the following clip, whether he uses the WC chain punches principle or not is not important. Principle has no style boundary.


The difference is that Vitor can pull it off, and a WC exponent seemingly can't. So wherever Vitor picked this up from (I'm going to guess Boxing), it's safe to assume that's where you should go to properly learn the method.
 

Kung Fu Wang

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The difference is that Vitor can pull it off, and a WC exponent seemingly can't. So wherever Vitor picked this up from (I'm going to guess Boxing), it's safe to assume that's where you should go to properly learn the method.
From a WC guy's point of view, a fight should look like this.

 

isshinryuronin

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Kickboxing/BJJ/Wrestling paradigm remains dominant, and I see no indication of it ever changing.
This may be the result of the rule set to a certain extent. Some of the most effective techniques in other arts are not allowed in MMA so those arts are naturally not represented.
 

Hanzou

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This may be the result of the rule set to a certain extent. Some of the most effective techniques in other arts are not allowed in MMA so those arts are naturally not represented.

What effective techniques do you feel are omitted? The first few UFCs only had rules against biting, and BJJ, Kickboxing and wrestling still dominated it.
 

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