What has happened to Japanese Ju Jitsu in the UK?

caped crusader

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We're discussing traditional/classical (authentic) Japanese Jujutsu in the UK. What does a popular modern, Western (German) system have to do with that at all?
because you were wrong in your expert assumption that only authentic schools are spelt ju jutsu
also you mentioned Germany. you do read what you post..right?
anyway buddy have a nice day.
 

Chris Parker

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Wow... no, I said that authentic schools would spell the art correctly as jujutsu, as opposed to the jujitsu that had been used in-thread already, to help narrow the search for the OP. Not that only authentic systems use it, just that authentic systems will definitely use it. So, you know, I was right. And still am.

I mentioned Germany in relation to there being a healthy koryu community there, nothing else. You took a partial sentence completely out of context, and discussed thoroughly unrelated subjects based on not reading what I wrote correctly in the first place.

You do read.... right?
 

Hanzou

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I am looking to get back into Ju Jitsu after many years out and am confused as to the decline of Japanese Ju Jitsu in the Uk. Can anyone help explain where it has gone? Im not interested in Gracie, or Grand master Steve from down the road, and sorry but MMA is not the natural development of this art. Just give me traditional Japanese Ju Jitsu !

Well, it sort of is. JJJ evolved into Judo, and BJJ is a natural evolution of Judo. Since BJJ forms the core of MMA, it's fair to say that MMA is a natural development of JJJ and other classical MAs.
 

caped crusader

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Well, it sort of is. JJJ evolved into Judo, and BJJ is a natural evolution of Judo. Since BJJ forms the core of MMA, it's fair to say that MMA is a natural development of JJJ and other classical MAs.
yeah and what people need to think about is this.. these old Ryu even Kito Ryu ..etc which influenced Judo were made for battlefield fighting against a samurai warrior and nothing really important for modern day fighting. I agree with Hanzou it織s developed into modern systems.
 

Jusroc

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I will return when i have more time to answer.

Please, Mr Parker, feel free to make a statement that proves this statement of mine is untrue, as,
it does appear to be your gifted talent.
 

Jusroc

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OK. I have returned. Please let me explain something before the debate continues.
After reading my initial reply, I realise that what I have written perhaps was more than asked for with regards to the scope of the original topic (This is likely because I have Autism Spectrum Disorder, as communication is an area we have problems in).

I realise that in my first answer reply post, as well as attempting to answer the above question/s, I also included some of my own personal opinions with regards to some other related matters.

I understand that I was not asked for my personal opinion in this area, so i apologies for my indulgence on this. If the moderators want to delete my posts on this topic, please feel free to do so. I have no problems with that what so ever.

I think with regards to the areas of disagreement I have with Mr Chris Parker.
I feel that we are going to have to simply agree to disagree.

I do not know you Mr Chris Parker, (as you do not know me), so I can not give an opinion as to why you hold the opinions that you do.

I have to say that at times you have come across aggressively (if not abusive / offensive) rather than friendly.

Maybe I am wrong and just being sensitive, but generally speaking, I personally think it better to talk to people on forums, as you would do in the real world. politely, intelligently, and respectfully.

As, we are all people, even if someone wrote something you disagree with, or even if they are obviously wrong, there is a way to help people change their opinion or update their knowledge base without being aggressive, offensive or even confrontational.

i think the word friendly would be the ultimate approach here.

There are several statements which you have made Mr Chris Parker, which I think are either offensive or inaccurate in your last reply to me. However, I don't particularly want to spend the rest of my life arguing the finer points of this, so i will keep my reply as brief as possible.

Your statement with regards to Prof Jigoro Kano for example, in his development of Judo.
I have read several biographies of Prof Jigoro Kano.

Kodokan Judo, was originally created as an amalgamation of techniques which Prof Kano had learnt from training in various styles of Traditional Ju Jutsu. (oh. amalgamation of techniques something else that you thought was bs as well.. Well maybe your write and Prof Kano was wrong?...)

Prof Kano choose the techniques that could be practised repeatedly safely in randori, so that Judo practitioners could employ randori on a regular basis, and this is what made Kano's methodology different to many of the other schools of Ju Jitsu at the time.

Over the years, various Judo techniques did become illegal due to them being recognised as dangerous.
Kata Guruma is one example.

In the early Kodokan contests, full stand up kata guruma was completely legal.
During some of the earliest fights there were a number of fatalities due to Judoka using Kata Guruma to drop their opponent onto their head, which resulted in their opponent death. So. They made it illegal.

International Judo Federation continues to change the rules on a yearly basis, occasionally techniques are made completely illegal, with the last most significant ones being made illegal being techniques that employ the use of leg grabs.

And as I am sure you know, during this time that Prof Kano became well known, some of the masters from the other Ju Jutsu Schools wanted to fight Prof Kano and his students to prove that their style is superior.
The rest is history.

Prof Kano's original intentions of creating Judo, was not to create an international sport, but was to create an art form that kept the old systems of Ju Jutsu alive during a time that the Samurai and their ways were dying out.

Part of Prof Kano's vision was to help promote Japanese moral values, at the same time as promoting the sport. I.E. courtesy, courage, honesty, honour, modesty, respect, self-control, friendship.

It was only until later that Prof Kano started to promote Judo as a sport.

Personally, I like the "Do" side of the art, as well as the self defence application.

As without real world self defence application, it is arguable that the arts become no more than funny looking men, dancing around the room play acting their samurai (which is particularly funny when the clubs are full of Gaijin, who can never become Samurai).
 
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frank raud

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Over the years, various Judo techniques did become illegal due to them being recognised as dangerous.
Kata Guruma is one example.

In the early Kodokan contests, full stand up kata guruma was completely legal.
During some of the earliest fights there were a number of fatalities due to Judoka using Kata Guruma to drop their opponent onto their head, which resulted in their opponent death. So. They made it illegal.
Kata Garuma was banned due to leg contact, not because it was/is inherently dangerous. It is the same reason other techniques like Morote Gari were banned from IJF competition, you cant touch opponent below the belt.
 

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