what do you think

[terryl965]

What do you think of schools that goes to tournaments and have upper belt compete in lower division just so they can win a medal. I.E. someone that is a red belt and competes as a green or a black that competes as a blue, is it right or wrong, I keep seeing this in every tournament we go to just like the USTU Junior Olympics.... GOD BLESS AMERICA

 

[Enson]

What do you think of schools that goes to tournaments and have upper belt compete in lower division just so they can win a medal. I.E. someone that is a red belt and competes as a green or a black that competes as a blue, is it right or wrong, I keep seeing this in every tournament we go to just like the USTU Junior Olympics.... GOD BLESS AMERICA

how do you know they are not the belt they claim they are? and i guess if its true it would be pretty bad having the grandmaster competing against white belts. hee hee! what if he loses? (joke) its a matter of character and ethics.
peace

 

[Disco]

That's only one of the reasons why I stopped training and coaching people years ago. I have actually overheard coaches telling their people to foul someone on purpose. All they would get would be either a warning or at the most a point deduction. Mean time, their opponent would be slowed due to injury and the fight would be easier to win. It became and is a win at all cost mindset with a lot of people. I've seen the main ring judge (head of court), overturn the corner judges decision, because either it was his or his friends student who now would win. Needless to say, my respect for a certain nationality has deminished greatly.

 

[Ceicei]

It happens, but I'd say it isn't ethical.

- Ceicei

 

[Zepp]

In organizations that have standardized ranks, this is definitely a form of cheating. If it happened in tournaments that inlcuded organizations with different ranking systems, then rank is subjective anyways, but that's not the case in the USTU Junior Olympics. A responsible martial arts organization would make at least some attempt to prevent this.

 

[terryl965]

how do you know they are not the belt they claim they are? and i guess if its true it would be pretty bad having the grandmaster competing against white belts. hee hee! what if he loses? (joke) its a matter of character and ethics.
peace

Because the gentleman that fought my son in the AAU was a blackbelt then in this tournament he was a green belt when my son ask he said his instructor said he could dominant that division, This is a joke in tournaments seeing a fourth year blue belt/

 

[Han-Mi]

that's sad. We actually have some of our better student compete in higher divisions because they do well in their current division. That is considered unfair by some i guess. But if you can handle the competition, why not move up?

 

[TigerWoman]

What we are really talking about are unethical masters or instructors sending their students, allowing their students, or them themselves competing as lower rank when they are in actuality higher than the belt they wear. It is very wrong, but because the system is not governed by an appeal board or actually by any governing board except USTU and if THEY don't do anything about it, a master/instructor can keep doing anything they want. Is it fair, no. The only thing you can do is publicize it. Submit the story to newspapers etc. TW

 

[Gary Crawford]

Unfortunatly this is a semi-regular practice in state level and national level USTU tournaments.You can stage a "protest" in those tournaments if you are willing to risk several hundreds of dollars hoping the officials will see it your way,you better have proof,video,ect.Otherwise you loose your protest fee.Even if you are right without a doubt,they often rule against you.Goodbye money!

 

[kwanjang]

Years ago, I was the center judge at a World Championship event when a high ranking Master brought a student over to the ring and changed his belt right there on the spot. Since the Master out ranked me (and was a relative of the tournament director), I excused myself from the ring, explained my reason for leaving, wished the competitors luck, and left the competition never to return to judge there again.

It is a shame to have such things take place, as tournaments could be a great learning tool for students. Now I carefully pick the tourneys I attend with my students, and I still teach them to go there to learn. If they get a medal in the process... great. If not, congratulate the winning competitor, and learn from any mistakes you might have made. If no mistakes were made, you simply experienced the fact that some folks can do some things better than others... and that is life.

 

[terryl965]

Years ago, I was the center judge at a World Championship event when a high ranking Master brought a student over to the ring and changed his belt right there on the spot. Since the Master out ranked me (and was a relative of the tournament director), I excused myself from the ring, explained my reason for leaving, wished the competitors luck, and left the competition never to return to judge there again.

It is a shame to have such things take place, as tournaments could be a great learning tool for students. Now I carefully pick the tourneys I attend with my students, and I still teach them to go there to learn. If they get a medal in the process... great. If not, congratulate the winning competitor, and learn from any mistakes you might have made. If no mistakes were made, you simply experienced the fact that some folks can do some things better than others... and that is life.

Kwanjang you are exactly right we do not care about the medals as much as a learning tool for the advancement in training, I always knew this was the way for alot of unethecal instructors out there. I will be talking to you later this week, Have a great week.
Terry and his family Zachary, caleb ,Michael, and Yolanda

 

[Marginal]

What do you think of schools that goes to tournaments and have upper belt compete in lower division just so they can win a medal.

I'd think they have no faith in the abilities of their upper belts to perform at the level they're supposed to be representing. "Ok, you're a 2nd degree? You go fight 3rd gups because I don't beleive you could defend yourself against someone your own rank..."

 

[glad2bhere]

Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.

It is my understanding that the WHOLE IDEA of introducing ranks, as did Kano with Judo at the turn of the 20th century, was to approximate people of comparable skill level so as to improve the result of training. Am I to understand that people are so phobic about the prospect of losing a match that people with greater time and experience must compete against neophytes so as to not face deficiencies in their training? So all of this talk about developing Character, subduing the Ego and developing a Sportsmans' conduct--- whats up about THAT? I think a guy could be forgiven for thinking that all of those fine values found in TKD credo-s across the country are about of the same worth as the multiple arts touted on the windows, yes?

Thoughts? Comments?

Best Wishes,

Bruce

 

[Langdow]

Competely wrong for a coach to have an athlete fight down in rank. That compromises the safety of the other competitor, and the spirit of competition.

If a coach has a competitor fight up a division, I still feel it compromises the safety of their competitor, but if they have the talent to do it, and the spirit to try, I say go get your butt kicking, enjoy it, and learn something from it.

 

[Marginal]

I think a guy could be forgiven for thinking that all of those fine values found in TKD credo-s across the country are about of the same worth as the multiple arts touted on the windows, yes?

Depends on how comfy you are with broad generializations. Really though, any creedo's only worth as much as the person reading/reciting it's willing to put in. That's up to the person and isn't especially controllable by the culture the creedo's designed to speak to.

 

[kwanjang]

...So all of this talk about developing Character, subduing the Ego and developing a Sportsmans' conduct--- whats up about THAT? I think a guy could be forgiven for thinking that all of those fine values found in TKD credo-s across the country are about of the same worth as the multiple arts touted on the windows, yes?

Thoughts? Comments?

Best Wishes,

Bruce

Exactly why I chose not to participate anymore. Just did not fit with what I believed in. On the other hand, I have also seen some great events where everyone had a wonderful time competing and learning how to handle a loss or a win (many competitors let the win go to their head, and that can be just as bad as being a poor loser).

 

[glad2bhere]

My experience was a bitter event and followed on the heels of a competition in which I was injured by a low technique to the knee. Years later my left knee is still the weaker of the two. What pushed me out of competition, however was less the damage done to my body than what was done to my spirit. Some one month later following my injury, I was attending a demonstration event in which various instructors were coming together insolidarity for the arts and to show the community what we were about. The individual my instructor was matched with was very accomplished. After a number of exchanges my instructor used the same low technique on his partner's knee that I had experienced the previous month. Remember --- this wasn't even competition--- just a demo for the public. That was in 1975. I haven't been in a competition in 29 years. :idunno:

Best Wishes,

Bruce

 

[TX_BB]

So they win a color belt division big whoop!!

 

[terryl965]

So they win a color belt division big whoop!!

Exactly right whoopi, just a thread and one person opion, not right or wrong just my on personal believes in the spirit of sportmanship. GOD BLESS AMERICA

 

[Langdow]

I think it goes farther than winning or losing the competition. Safety of the competitor is at risk when these sort of things happen.

I think as coaches and tournment hosts, officials, and others, it's important to try to limit the injuries that do happen. If they can be prevented by say . . . . oh staying in the same belt division, that would be a good thing in my opinion. Injuries do and will happen in the ring, that's just a fact, but when it's due to a negligent coach/competitor/official/host, I honestly don't think it's in the best interest of the competitor to be involved in a situation like that.