fightingfat
Green Belt
Hey guys, what do you make of these two Wing Chun "Masters"?
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:mst:
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What do you think about this "Master"?
- Thread starter fightingfat
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ed-swckf
Black Belt
I know billy davidson knows his stuff but i've never really seen paul smith before. Interesting demo being watched over by sifu sam kwok, i quite liked it although i'm sensing you aren't so sure about it?
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Flying Crane
Sr. Grandmaster
I don't know anything about these people, so I can't comment based on their reputation or anything like that.
This was clearly a demonstration designed to illustrate the effectiveness of the art, presumably against individuals using a more "street fighting" or other martial arts approach. But as a demonstration, it is clearly geared toward showing the art as more effective than the streetfighter. It can be assumed that the participants, including the "streetfighter" are acting in a manner to emphasize the effectiveness of Wing Chun over the other approach.
While this is not a true and real demonstration (as it includes some degree of choreography, or at least cooperation), because it is impossible to predict how an unknown assailant would act, it is still a reasonable demonstration of the art. Really, anybody who demonstrates their art is going to do their best to present it in a positive way, focusing on its strengths and portraying it as highly effective.
Interesting clip.
This was clearly a demonstration designed to illustrate the effectiveness of the art, presumably against individuals using a more "street fighting" or other martial arts approach. But as a demonstration, it is clearly geared toward showing the art as more effective than the streetfighter. It can be assumed that the participants, including the "streetfighter" are acting in a manner to emphasize the effectiveness of Wing Chun over the other approach.
While this is not a true and real demonstration (as it includes some degree of choreography, or at least cooperation), because it is impossible to predict how an unknown assailant would act, it is still a reasonable demonstration of the art. Really, anybody who demonstrates their art is going to do their best to present it in a positive way, focusing on its strengths and portraying it as highly effective.
Interesting clip.
bcbernam777
Brown Belt
My Sifu who has studie Wing Chun for 50 years does not refer to himself as a master, so I fail to see how to term "Master" can be applied to these gentlemen. Me thinks it is a term too losely used in our modern MA terminology. I looked at the video, that does not look a great deal like Wing Chun to me.
OP
OP
fightingfat
Green Belt
My sentiments precisely. I don't personally see any Wing Chun in the demo, except the kicks perhaps at the end which are recognisable as Wing Chun techniques, but not executed "well". The fact that these two blokes proclaim themselves as Master really suprised me!
Now this bloke http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4N4Iyl-Efx4&mode=related&search= you can see his Wing Chun. yes it's a demo, yes it's a bit pre-prescribed, but it's sharp and the techniques are clearly demonstrated. What do you think?
Hi FightingFat,
I see that your located in England, why don't you travel to Manchester and take a lesson under Billy Davidson and see his Wing Chun first hand?
I just think its a little harsh to pass judgment on somebodies skill only reffering to one small video clip found on the internet that holds no information as the context of the demonstration without ever seeing him first hand.
Surely you realise that you have to look at the bigger picture before you can understand the full context of anything?
Sorry if this post is a little sharp, I just feel quite passionately about this sort of thing.
I see that your located in England, why don't you travel to Manchester and take a lesson under Billy Davidson and see his Wing Chun first hand?
I just think its a little harsh to pass judgment on somebodies skill only reffering to one small video clip found on the internet that holds no information as the context of the demonstration without ever seeing him first hand.
Surely you realise that you have to look at the bigger picture before you can understand the full context of anything?
Sorry if this post is a little sharp, I just feel quite passionately about this sort of thing.
OP
OP
fightingfat
Green Belt
It's a good point Stu. My comments are based largely at the tag of "MASTER" that seems a little out of context with the display, which, the MASTER is obviously proud of (Or why would he post it on the internet?)
As for a visit, what purpose could it possibly serve? I'm not particularly bothered how good MASTER Billy really is (the way you put it is that he is somehow misleading us in this clip and hiding his true MASTER ability
). The fact that he thinks this clip demonstrates how good he easy pretty much tells me I don't want to train with the man. My point is more that it is a shame that WC gets represented in this way...I wanted to see what other people thought; whether this standard prevails, if others thought this represented WC well!
As for a visit, what purpose could it possibly serve? I'm not particularly bothered how good MASTER Billy really is (the way you put it is that he is somehow misleading us in this clip and hiding his true MASTER ability
). The fact that he thinks this clip demonstrates how good he easy pretty much tells me I don't want to train with the man. My point is more that it is a shame that WC gets represented in this way...I wanted to see what other people thought; whether this standard prevails, if others thought this represented WC well!
bcbernam777
Brown Belt
Yes A lot sharper, you can at least distinguish this as wing chun, the technique seems fairly crisp, and the partner seems to be employing a more fluid attack than the other partner did on the previous vid. The only criticism I have, and I preface this by saying I know there needs to be a bit of polish for the vid, is that there are only the chain punches offered by the aggressor. I would love to see some more technique from the partner, a flaw I find in a lot of Wing Chun vids. You know what I mean, a little more Wing Chun v grappling, kicking etc. Still for what it is it is a fine display of fundamental WC skill.
ed-swckf
Black Belt
He's a direct student of sifu sam kwok, and sams approach is similar. I would suggest seekingmout some of his DVD's if you are interested.
Thewayofthewarriorispeace
White Belt
hmm...to be honest, the first clip looks somewhat like western 'play boxing', I dont really see much wing chun other than maybe the kicks and some of the hand positions (right neutral). To me it looks like they are hopping around too much, and some of it looks pretty sloppy for "masters." However, I know Sifu Kwok has studied under Yip Chun, and if he is the teacher here I am in no position to argue with his method. The second video to me looks much more like Wing Chun, even if it is rehearsed...good show of technique, looks very smooth and clean. The thing is, even if they were free sparring in the first video, shouldnt they be using both hands simultaniously? Ive seen some wing chun sparring, and it usually looks similiar to chi sau except for partners break contact and move around a lot more.
just my $.10
just my $.10
ed-swckf
Black Belt
Only if you are working chi sau in a free flowing sparring type of way like gor sau. Otherwise if your sparring is working a broader scheme i.e with entries, kicks and distancing then you wouldn't really be using the chi sau position except for momentarily when you clash hands and it would be chi sau principles you apply at that point its doubtful it would look like chi sau. But then what is looks vs. effectiveness.
Thewayofthewarriorispeace
White Belt
I see what you mean, but that video still doesnt look much like wing chun lol
ed-swckf
Black Belt
Depends how you look at it. What are the qualities you are looking at to make it wing chun? Is it just looks? Are principles being broken with what is being shown?
in many asian cultures, the term 'master' as translated to english, simply means teacher. don't jump the gun.
Changhfy
Green Belt
Generally what Ami said is correct.
The term of a master would be the same as a Sifu. (the qualifications are that you must have to be some type of authority on what your occupation is)
For instance you would call a head Chef a Sifu, or in todays Western culture they would be called a Master Chef. (thus the term Master)
So its really not a big leap for them to label themselves as Masters.
(but I do understand where your coming from)
take care,
zai jian
The term of a master would be the same as a Sifu. (the qualifications are that you must have to be some type of authority on what your occupation is)
For instance you would call a head Chef a Sifu, or in todays Western culture they would be called a Master Chef. (thus the term Master)
So its really not a big leap for them to label themselves as Masters.
(but I do understand where your coming from)
take care,
zai jian
Here's a new, but unintentionally humorous, low - I just got a negative reputation for the above post which reads as follows, " really unuseful commentry."
Okay, if you write, spell and think that poorly..... should you be making any 'commentry' about the quality of anyone else's posts?
Outside of a trained tutor or dedicated special ed teacher, it is highly unlikely anyone here can post anything which is not 'unuseful' to this individual......who, of course, was anonymous.:barf:
Okay, if you write, spell and think that poorly..... should you be making any 'commentry' about the quality of anyone else's posts?
Outside of a trained tutor or dedicated special ed teacher, it is highly unlikely anyone here can post anything which is not 'unuseful' to this individual......who, of course, was anonymous.:barf:
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