What arts are incompatible with each other?

Gerry Seymour

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Not fully caught up, so this may have been addressed. But in my kempo, we learned some Fu Jow Pai (I think actually hung ga, since I never got advanced in that aspect), which included a 't stance'. My understanding of it/what was explained to me, is that there are times you lose balance, and that is a good 'recovery' transition stance for when that occurs. It's not a stance you want to be in, but if you train it, you can quickly get back to a safer stance.
Interesting. I'll have to play with the concept at the gym today.
 

Flying Crane

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I have not heard about any Taiji guy who trains grip strength. Most of the Taiji guys that I have met would consider grip strength as "brute force".

The definition of wrestling is "the sport of strength". The Taiji slogan is "strength is low level and sweating is bad".

In training, when a

- wrestling coach tells you that you will need to sweat.
- Taiji instructor tells you that you should not sweat.

Who are you going to listen?
I believe you are looking at this more on a level of technique and strategy. In my opinion, those things can always be compatible IF they can function with the same principles.

In the white crane I have learned, we lean much more heavily on striking, and less so on chin-na or any grappling. However, I could learn some grappling, see how it is compatible with the same white crane principles, and then that grappling could have a legitimate home in white crane.

Likewise, I believe wrestling could have a home within taiji. It would require learning wrestling and then seeing how it may be compatible with the principles on which taiji functions.

If in fact it is not compatible and always is in conflict with the principles, then they are not compatible. But I suspect there could be some compatibility there.

And my understanding of taiji is definitely NOT that they do not work hard. Taiji, like any method, requires hard work and sweat, in order to build skill.
 

geezer

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I think there's some mixing of issues in this thread - it's inherent to the topic. What you describe here sounds like conflicts in training. I (and some others) have been talking about compatibility once they are learned....

OK. To a certain extent I can agree with that. Often you can see more conceptual similarities between very high level practitioners of differing systems than you will between lower level students. It's the old thing about climbing a mountain from different sides. You start out very far apart but get closer as you approach the summit, ....that is assuming you are not climbing a mesa. Then you will still be far apart even at the top!

Black_Mesa%2C_Road_502_near_San_Ildefonso_Pueblo%2C_New_Mexico_USA_-_panoramio.jpg
 

FriedRice

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Kata/Flowery Forms = incompatibility

Ever had some dude make you change your stance and pretty much, your complete style of fighting because you tried out his class/school for fun?
 

geezer

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Kata/Flowery Forms = incompatibility

Ever had some dude make you change your stance and pretty much, your complete style of fighting because you tried out his class/school for fun?

Not sure what you mean here. Of course certain systems use very different stances, while others use pretty similar ways of standing and moving. Either way, stances are fundamental ...so if you try out a different system, of course you have to adopt whatever stances they use. Unless you are just there to spar or something, I guess...
 

FriedRice

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Not sure what you mean here. Of course certain systems use very different stances, while others use pretty similar ways of standing and moving. Either way, stances are fundamental ...so if you try out a different system, of course you have to adopt whatever stances they use. Unless you are just there to spar or something, I guess...

I was there to take a class and it wasn't fun being forced to change my stance...but to be fair, we do the same to other stylists that come in to learn Muay Thai. However, the MT stance and style is not that strict.

Don't get me wrong, I completely submitted to their directions as best as I could (as old habits are hard to break). But I didn't like it. It was very difficult in terms of memorization and such...this was Shaolin Kung-Fu and I wanted to learn weapons (to improve my LARPING, haha)......and I told them this but they still made me go through the whole shabang with the animal stances.
 

geezer

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I was there to take a class and it wasn't fun being forced to change my stance...but to be fair, we do the same to other stylists that come in to learn Muay Thai. However, the MT stance and style is not that strict.

Don't get me wrong, I completely submitted to their directions as best as I could (as old habits are hard to break). But I didn't like it. It was very difficult in terms of memorization and such...this was Shaolin Kung-Fu and I wanted to learn weapons (to improve my LARPING, haha)......and I told them this but they still made me go through the whole shabang with the animal stances.

OK, I get it, but I'm not surprised. Traditional martial arts, if taught by an instructor who cares, tend to be almost obsessive-compulsive about those kinds of details. In my limited experience with competitive sports, the focus is a little more on what works rather than on doing things "the correct way". Learning TCMA seems like a lot of work for a little material to help your recreational LARPing. Then again maybe you are more hard-core about it than most! :D
 

FriedRice

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OK, I get it, but I'm not surprised. Traditional martial arts, if taught by an instructor who cares, tend to be almost obsessive-compulsive about those kinds of details. In my limited experience with competitive sports, the focus is a little more on what works rather than on doing things "the correct way".

I'm actually like that and get overly nitpicking when teaching; so I guess I'm getting a does of my own meds. There's a lot of details in BJJ too, so I guess I know what you mean.

Learning TCMA seems like a lot of work for a little material to help your recreational LARPing. Then again maybe you are more hard-core about it than most! :D

It's got to the point where I'm looking for other things to have fun with. One of the biggest hurdles I've notice was to be able to withstand the monotony of training repetitive techs to get good. At this point, I can do 20-30 straight rounds of shadow boxing + bag work, 2x /week, then 2-3 classes = 4-5 days of training at the "Gym-Rat" level, religiously. It's been like 12 straight years of this shiznit since I got serious....so training less to Larp once a week is incredibly fun right now.
 

Buka

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Not fully caught up, so this may have been addressed. But in my kempo, we learned some Fu Jow Pai (I think actually hung ga, since I never got advanced in that aspect), which included a 't stance'. My understanding of it/what was explained to me, is that there are times you lose balance, and that is a good 'recovery' transition stance for when that occurs. It's not a stance you want to be in, but if you train it, you can quickly get back to a safer stance.

Brought back some great memories, Fu Jow Pai was the first Kung Fu I ever trained in. Almost forgot about that. I really liked it, too.
 

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