Watered Down Martial Arts

Oily Dragon

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Feel free to share that evidence then.
Fish hooks are banned in all combat sports going back a long time.

Fish hooking is banned because it is dangerous, and can cause severe injury, permanent disability, disfigurement, and potential death (all of which can end a fight).

Therefore, you find a new hill to die on.

Logic 101.
 

GojuTommy

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Fish hooks are banned in all combat sports going back a long time.

Fish hooking is banned because it is dangerous, and can cause severe injury, permanent disability, disfigurement, and potential death (all of which can end a fight).

Therefore, you find a new hill to die on.

Logic 101.
Stating you think theyre too dangerous and therefore thats why theyre banned isnt evidence.

I for example shared two articles of professional fighters that had a dominant position used fishhooks, and it made absolutely no difference and they lost.

Your turn.
 

Oily Dragon

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Stating you think theyre too dangerous and therefore thats why theyre banned isnt evidence.

I for example shared two articles of professional fighters that had a dominant position used fishhooks, and it made absolutely no difference and they lost.

Your turn.
But you're making the odd claim here. And two little examples don't prove anything. I have the history of every combat sport on my side: banned! Even Vale Tudo. Possibly Pankration, (except maybe in Sparta.)

I shared a pretty primae facie proof. My turn? Game was over yesterday dude. Fish hooks are really dangerous, therefore banned in all civilized combat sports.

You're arguing that because you beat all your alleged students and none of them succeeded with fishhooks, therefore the Unities Ruled and all the preceding precedents are wrong. Good luck with that pitch.
 
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GojuTommy

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But you're making the odd claim here. And two little examples don't prove anything. I have the history of every combat sport on my side: banned! Even Vale Tudo. Possibly Pankration, (except maybe in Sparta.)

I shared a pretty primae facie proof. My turn? Game was over yesterday dude. Fish hooks are really dangerous, therefore banned in all civilized combat sports.

You're arguing that because you beat all your alleged students and none of them succeeded with fishhooks, therefore the Unities Ruled and all the preceding precedents are wrong. Good luck with that pitch.
Ok so you have no proof, just your belief why they are banned. Those two things are not the same.
 

Oily Dragon

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Ok so you have no proof, just your belief why they are banned. Those two things are not the same.
You're making the claim that they're not banned because they're not dangerous, though.

That's a bold claim, bub.

Did you miss the premise, inference, conclusion proof? That's what a proof looks like. Your idea of proof is Youtube? Pick a new hill, dude.
 

Kung Fu Wang

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Feel free to share that evidence then.
To use firemen's carry to throw your opponent off the stage and kill him was banned in the ancient time.

sc_throw_off_stage.jpg
 

punisher73

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The fish hooks people keep referencing here all require the dominate position to use, is that the same in the situation youre referring to?
In this case, NO. They were both just sort of rolling around on the ground because like most untrained people they didn't no jack about positioning or control. In this particular situation, the fish hook was one handed (right hand) and the thumb was inserted along the inner cheek area and the remaining fingers were outside the mouth area. Not sure the exact mechanics he used, but the damage was that the lower jaw area when the cheek meets inside the mouth was torn open.

I have always been told/taught that this is also a fish hook, I'm sure that there are other ways to do it. But, this is how it was done in this case.
 

punisher73

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Ok so you have no proof, just your belief why they are banned. Those two things are not the same.

He DID provide proof. Even "google" fish hooking and when it describes it, it says that it is banned from combat sports because of its dangerous nature and high probability of injury.

Not sure what else could be provided. What would YOU actually accept as proof for the reason fish hooking is banned?
 

Oily Dragon

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He DID provide proof. Even "google" fish hooking and when it describes it, it says that it is banned from combat sports because of its dangerous nature and high probability of injury.

Not sure what else could be provided. What would YOU actually accept as proof for the reason fish hooking is banned?
Or put another way, where's the evidence that it's on the list for some other reason. "Most banned techniques" and all that...it's safe to say a technique is banned for safety reasons by default. Are there other reasons? Hmm. Not here.

Truth be told, there's only one reason. People get really hurt, or at best, cheated, with fish hooking. Even violated (it can be construed as a form of rape).

They don't call it dirty wrestling for nothing.
 

GojuTommy

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He DID provide proof. Even "google" fish hooking and when it describes it, it says that it is banned from combat sports because of its dangerous nature and high probability of injury.

Not sure what else could be provided. What would YOU actually accept as proof for the reason fish hooking is banned?
He didnt share proof, and a 2 paragraph wiki link isnt proof.
If the wiki link had examples with citations that would be a different story.

UFC is the only major combat sport that allows the knee to be targeted with linear kicks. So by that logic linear kicks to the knee was too dangerous to use up until the unified rules were created. Its been shown not to be any more dangerous than any other technique.

He states a fact that its banned in most every major combat sport, and then gives his opinion on why its banned. That opinion may even be shared by those who write the rules, but shared opinions are not evidence. Examples create data, data can then be analyzed to create evidence.
 

Oily Dragon

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He didnt share proof, and a 2 paragraph wiki link isnt proof.
If the wiki link had examples with citations that would be a different story.

UFC is the only major combat sport that allows the knee to be targeted with linear kicks. So by that logic linear kicks to the knee was too dangerous to use up until the unified rules were created. Its been shown not to be any more dangerous than any other technique.

He states a fact that its banned in most every major combat sport, and then gives his opinion on why its banned. That opinion may even be shared by those who write the rules, but shared opinions are not evidence. Examples create data, data can then be analyzed to create evidence.
So you have no evidence to support your claim that there's a different reason. Got it, thanks for being honest about your own lack of source.

At least I shared an actual propositional proof. You didn't even address that. That wasn't "my opinion" dude, that was MMA, Vale Tudo, wrestling rules. Your argument is in opposition to those, which is odd. Everyone in combat sporting seems to agree on this, but you.

So, how many students do you own again on the mats, that can't pull off fishhooks? Seriously, genuinely curious.
 
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Oily Dragon

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In a perfect world, GojuTommy gets fishhooks unbanned in MMA, because they're not dangerous?

Insanity.

What's this world coming to, seriously. Nobody wants to train marital arts with fishhooks, that's crazy.
 

Wing Woo Gar

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He didnt share proof, and a 2 paragraph wiki link isnt proof.
If the wiki link had examples with citations that would be a different story.

UFC is the only major combat sport that allows the knee to be targeted with linear kicks. So by that logic linear kicks to the knee was too dangerous to use up until the unified rules were created. Its been shown not to be any more dangerous than any other technique.

He states a fact that its banned in most every major combat sport, and then gives his opinion on why its banned. That opinion may even be shared by those who write the rules, but shared opinions are not evidence. Examples create data, data can then be analyzed to create evidence.
Why make a foul then if its no more dangerous than any other technique? A 12 to 6 elbow isnt allowed, I believe that its a great way to get someone to expose the throat when you have their back, like bouncing their head against the ground. When they arch back to resist the next bounce, naked choke. Small joint manipulation isnt deadly and likely not a fight ending move but its also a foul. Head butting? Biting? Why ban it?
 

Oily Dragon

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Why make a foul then if its no more dangerous than any other technique? A 12 to 6 elbow isnt allowed, I believe that its a great way to get someone to expose the throat when you have their back, like bouncing their head against the ground. When they arch back to resist the next bounce, naked choke. Small joint manipulation isnt deadly and likely not a fight ending move but its also a foul. Head butting? Biting? Why ban it?
I have a theory.

GojuTommy hasnt been choked enough, fingers in or out.

Part of that is because he runs an alleged school where he dominates all his students and nobody can get their fingers in his mouth, therefore fish hooks aren't effective.

He actually said that a few pages back.
 

Dirty Dog

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In a perfect world, GojuTommy gets fishhooks unbanned in MMA, because they're not dangerous?

Insanity.

What's this world coming to, seriously. Nobody wants to train marital arts with fishhooks, that's crazy.
Not really. Organized sports are not the only place injuries occur. Can you find anything in the literature about fishhook injuries? I cannot, except for the metal kind used by anglers. That would argue against your position.
 

Oily Dragon

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Not really. Organized sports are not the only place injuries occur. Can you find anything in the literature about fishhook injuries? I cannot, except for the metal kind used by anglers. That would argue against your position.
Fish hooking is one of the oldest banned techniques in combat sports history for a good reason. Come on...tearing someone's face apart is unsporty. It's especially unwanted in grappling sports. Try it you'll get DQ'd, punched, ostracized. You also might win the match but should feel terrible.

The "literature" is pretty well documented in trauma medicine. And you won't find many videos, data etc.from the combat sports side, because it's banned.

The extreme street version is called "curb stomping". That's where the "hook" is concrete.
Totally illegal, 10-20 year bid.
 
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Wing Woo Gar

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In a perfect world, GojuTommy gets fishhooks unbanned in MMA, because they're not dangerous?

Insanity.

What's this world coming to, seriously. Nobody wants to train marital arts with fishhooks, that's crazy.
Sure, why not? The toughest of the tough want to prove it, except not really. Why not just go full blood sport, pre Roman style? Include live blades and traps and wild beasts. To the victor go the spoils!
 

Wing Woo Gar

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I have a theory.

GojuTommy hasnt been choked enough, fingers in or out.

Part of that is because he runs an alleged school where he dominates all his students and nobody can get their fingers in his mouth, therefore fish hooks aren't effective.

He actually said that a few pages back.
I have been following this thread. Biting my nails, trying not to fish hook myself.
 
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