Very strange TaeKwonDo instructional roundhouse kick

[paitingman]

Anytime you see a kickboxer throw a horizontal roundhouse kick with the instep or ball of the foot as striking surface, you are actually witnessing TMA style kicking. There are several all time greats like Ernesto Hoost, Mirco Cocop, etc who used TMA style roundhouses, at least to the head

Well said. Striking surface is key.

You see a lot of 45 degree kick to the body in sport fighting with mainly shins making contact.

Striking with the foot must involve deliberate hip position and adjusting to whip and send the foot around or through obstructions, or with intent to smash through.

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[paitingman]

In TKD, 45 degree works well with footwork in very close range as well.

No leg kick kickboxing mainly kick long range so horizontal is much better suited. Especially with front leg.

Up close headkicking like in Taekwondo, Kyokushin, Muay Thai uses many angles for kicking with instep.

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[Kung Fu Wang]

1. What is your center of gravity doing?
2. Can you shift weight forward or back while kicking this way?
3. Can you describe footwork when executing this kick on someone?
4. How do you feel about the power with whipping motion?

1. The gravity center is on the rooting foot.
2. I can't. My body is in rotation mode. It's a committed kick. If my opponent steps back, I will land my roundhouse kick and start my side kick.
3. Land the leading foot at the ring spot. Kick out the back leg. I use this every time my opponent switch stance from uniform stance to mirror stance. Only in mirror stance, my back leg can hit on his chest or belly.
4. I feel very comfortable on my knee joint. When I kick on heavy bag, I can feel my body take the counter force nicely. When I train solo, I rotate my body 360 degree. If I kick my right roundhouse kick, my left hand will move from my left shoulder to my right shoulder. The faster that my hand move, the faster that I kick out.

Some TKD masters told me that if one does side kick or front kick too much, he may hurt his knee joint in his old age. I find the whipping motion roundhouse kick is very easy for the knee joint.

Here is my favor roundhouse kick (body rotation can be seen here), side kick combo.

 

[_Simon_]

I took TKD for about 4 weeks last year when I was trying a few different things, so it's safe to say I can speak with authority on not only the correct technique, but even the history, origin, and general household use of the kick.

This particular kick is done when:

a) a person challenges your ability to kick a can of soft drink off their head. Perfect!

b) in sparring, if someone throws a punch, you can use this kick to attack the forearm flexors. This can cause great cramping for them and prevent them from grabbing your gi to rough you up.

c) if you ever need to test out your smoke alarms to check they're still working (we all need to from time to time don't we!), this works perfectly as a setup to bring your body closer to it. To push the button with your finger.

 

[dvcochran]

Perhaps I expressed myself poorly. The roundhouse kick used in kickboxing is NOT the 45 degree vertical kick used in TKD sport. It is the traditional horizontal one

I can't go that far. The variants of the RH kick are nearly endless. Angle (body & leg/foot) is dependent on several factors such as such as opponent position, flexibility, strategy, etc... An example would be whether a following kick is in play. Rotation would change to compliment the pursuing kick.
The same is true for which part of the foot is used for the strike.
I agree with you as far as a base of learning and how it is initially taught. Over time, a person will adapt the kick to work best for them. Hopefully they will not become too predictable.

 

[paitingman]

Another reason horizontal roundhouses are not used in TKD comp is because TKDoins almost always take a side-on stance. When they do throw roundhouses from the rear leg, they emphasize speed/disguise over power. This would not work in a kickboxing ring since emphasis is on power. Thus TKDoins have to use a horisontal one in FC setting, if they want to win that is... So there is good reason not to neglect traditional techniques

You keep citing power but I don't agree there is a major power difference.
You also keep saying it doesn't work well in kickboxing, but I see it and use it all the time in both American kickboxing and Muay Thai.
How much do you watch/participate in what kind of kickboxing?

Any high level kickboxer will have this type of 45 trajectory kick in their arsenal in modern kickboxing.

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[paitingman]

Anytime you see a kickboxer throw a horizontal roundhouse kick with the instep or ball of the foot as striking surface, you are actually witnessing TMA style kicking. There are several all time greats like Ernesto Hoost, Mirco Cocop, etc who used TMA style roundhouses, at least to the head

Also watch any Cro Cop fight and you will see him use 45 degree left roundhouse to the head and body.
Sometimes he throws it more horizontal, but my point is you will see both ways.
Both ways work well and with good effect.


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[Luminouschrome]

Any high level kickboxer will have this type of 45 trajectory kick in their arsenal in modern kickboxing.

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Not like they throw it in TaeKwondo.

 

[paitingman]

Not like they throw it in TaeKwondo.

I disagree. Where do you get this conclusion?

What sort of TKD or kickboxing do you train?

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[Jaeimseu]

You keep citing power but I don't agree there is a major power difference.
You also keep saying it doesn't work well in kickboxing, but I see it and use it all the time in both American kickboxing and Muay Thai.
How much do you watch/participate in what kind of kickboxing?

Any high level kickboxer will have this type of 45 trajectory kick in their arsenal in modern kickboxing.

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The angled round kick is used all the time in different contexts for different reasons. Some of those reasons are intentional. Some aren’t. As long as the hip is engaged, there shouldn’t be a huge power difference.


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[paitingman]

The angled round kick is used all the time in different contexts for different reasons. Some of those reasons are intentional. Some aren’t. As long as the hip is engaged, there shouldn’t be a huge power difference.


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Agreed

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[Buka]

The 45 degree sport variation shortcut often found in Taekwondo tournaments is not used in full contact Kickboxing for a reason. They use the horizontal, always (unless there's a brawling scrap going on). Not only does it avoid banging into elbows, it is much, much more powerful. The difference is that the pace of those fights are completely different since they also box, and they often set up kicks with boxing first.

And yes, some of them even use ball of the foot, usually those from FC Karate styles.

Just wanted to say welcome to Martial Talk, bro. I hope you enjoy it.

 

[Buka]

I've been kicked by a lot of different looking roundhouse kicks. If you spar/compete a lot those things happen, you can't block or evade them all, not if the other guy can kick. And the other guy can always kick.

All that matters, in my opinion, is if it serves it's purpose - if it hits, or if yours hits him. Or if it's a set up, lead in, etc. Style smile, it no matter.

 

[skribs]

I can't go that far. The variants of the RH kick are nearly endless. Angle (body & leg/foot) is dependent on several factors such as such as opponent position, flexibility, strategy, etc... An example would be whether a following kick is in play. Rotation would change to compliment the pursuing kick.
The same is true for which part of the foot is used for the strike.
I agree with you as far as a base of learning and how it is initially taught. Over time, a person will adapt the kick to work best for them. Hopefully they will not become too predictable.

Rotation changes when you go for power instead of speed, when you want to follow up with a turning kick, when you want to step forward instead of backward after the kick...and that's just one variable we're talking about!

I think that having rules in place is important for beginners, and beginners should not deviate from the rules of their school. For example, if you go into one school that teaches to use the shin, then the shin is the only thing you should use. If you go to another school and they teach ball of the foot, then that's all you should use. Until you're advanced enough to know when to use the other, you should only use the primary method taught at your school. Learn the rules before the exceptions to it.