Verifying Dan Ranking

Yeti

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Just wondering if there were a way to verify someone's Dan ranking. I'm going to be moving to CT in the next few weeks, and have found a local TKD school that looks like a good place to train. BUT...if I read the GM's bio, it claims he's a 9th Dan in TKD, and an 8th Dan in Hapkido, Aikido and Yudo (and actually, this reflects a change from the 8th Dan TKD, 7th Dan HKD, AKD and Yudo that he claimed last week!!!). It just seems WAY too outlandish to me to be that high in all those arts. Yes, they're related, but still.

So, I'd like to verify his ranking. I know as far asTKD is concerned, it's a WTF school recognized by the Kukkiwon, but I have no idea what federation/organization his HKD etc, rankings come from (another reason I'm leary about this).

I do plan on visiting the school and will ask that question, but for now, if anyone can point me in the right direction I'd appreciate it.

Thanks.
Tae Kwon!
 

rmclain

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He should have a verifiable lineage. Who was his teacher, and their teacher, etc.? Contacts should be available. Anyone legitimate would be proud to give this information to prospective students.


R. McLain
 

Gemini

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If he's WTF, it's very easy to check out his certification. If it isn't displayed on his wall, ask him for it. If you can give me his name, I could probably find out a good bit more than that. When I see my sabumnim tonight, I'll ask about the Hapkido certification.
 
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Yeti

Yeti

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Gemini

I just sent you a PM with the information you asked about. I figured I'd do it that way rather than torch the guy openly!

Thanks.
 
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shawn313

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Do some instructors give out "honorary dans" like some universities give out honorary degrees if they've made significant contributions to society?
 

Gemini

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shawn313 said:
Do some instructors give out "honorary dans" like some universities give out honorary degrees if they've made significant contributions to society?
Sometimes they do, and this may well be a case of that, but only to some extent. I've already verified his connection with Yale University. It could be this is just one impressive guy.
 
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Clmarts

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I have heard of some senior instructors giving honorary degree's to people who worked very hard and something happened that caused them not to be able to continue training. For instance, I heard a story at a tournament one time about a student who had trained very hard and achieved his first dan, but was in a car accident shortly before he tested for his second dan and was paralyzed. The instructor gave him the second dan based on the work he put into it and the dedication that the student exhibited.
 

Miles

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This Grandmaster has graduated from what was then the Korean Yudo College (now Yong-In University).

I am betting his age is closer to 60 than to 40 and that his ranks are totally legitimate. Look at it this way-if you went to school to be a martial arts instructor, then spent the next 40yrs training, wouldn't you have high ranks in multiple arts? Wouldn't there be something wrong if you did not?

Miles
 

Gemini

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Miles said:
This Grandmaster has graduated from what was then the Korean Yudo College (now Yong-In University).

I am betting his age is closer to 60 than to 40 and that his ranks are totally legitimate. Look at it this way-if you went to school to be a martial arts instructor, then spent the next 40yrs training, wouldn't you have high ranks in multiple arts? Wouldn't there be something wrong if you did not?

Miles
That might be true if he was really a graduate from there, but he isn't. Amongst other discrepancies. But, whatever....
 

Gemini

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Miles said:
Gemini,

Sounds like you have got the "scoop" on this person?

Miles
Ya, pretty much. Besides other research I did, I have the list of all the graduates from that school woking in the US. They're a tight group and know of each others whereabouts. I have no desire to bad-rap him, but he isn't all that he appears to be. What a shock, eh?
 
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Shane Smith

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I check up on other blackbelts by experiencing the quality of their sparring freeplay,preferably first hand.If the guy in question can't fight,I could care less how many stripes are on his belt.
 
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Yeti

Yeti

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Shane Smith said:
I check up on other blackbelts by experiencing the quality of their sparring freeplay,preferably first hand.If the guy in question can't fight,I could care less how many stripes are on his belt.
So does that mean if you lose a sparring match that you're not worth the stripe on your belt? Forgive me, and no disrespect intended, but that's a rather narrow viewpoint on how to judge a martial artist. No matter how good at somethig you may be, there is always someone somewhere who is better, and that can be independent of rank.
 

Gemini

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Yeti said:
So does that mean if you lose a sparring match that you're not worth the stripe on your belt? Forgive me, and no disrespect intended, but that's a rather narrow viewpoint on how to judge a martial artist. No matter how good at somethig you may be, there is always someone somewhere who is better, and that can be independent of rank.
That's very true, especially in a case like this. At around 60 years old, a MA's strong suite is in his knoweldge and ability to pass along that knowledge, even though he may well still be physically capable. Even if he isn't what he claims, that doesn't mean he doesn't still have much to offer. That's what needs to be seen first hand. Not his ability to kick someone's butt.
 
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Shane Smith

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No offense taken nor intended before or now;

If a man cannot do himself that which he represents himself as having the ability to teach, he is leading people astray and not worthy of consideration as an Instructor of same unless old age or injury have diminished his capabilities after the fact. We are not engaged in knitting class,these are "martial" arts.Martial generally means "of war or pertaining to combat" . From that rational perspective, anyone teaching a martial art should be able to handle himself competently within the confines of his own art against non-cooperative competition.That means sparring or freeplay in my opinion as a minimum. The Instructor in question needn't be able to whipe the mat with all comers but he had better demonstrate competence under adversarial conditions win or lose. I judge a mans capabilities by his performance, not a stripe on a belt. There are plenty of papered blackbelts who don't deserve it any more than I deserve to be called a Master. Don't judge a book by a sheet of paper from Korea, judge it based on whats under the cover sheet.

I'm not the toughest guy to be found, but I can perform competently on demand in adversarial freeplay.That is prerequisite . Any man can bore me to death with stories of how he may go about doing things in a hypothetical situation, but a man that can show me at will has my respect.I'm sure many of you are "doers" and I respect that.I have little respect for theorists who rely only on a sheet of parchment to command respect.
 

Brad Dunne

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"Adversarial freeplay", as it's being called, only shows the higher physical standards of an individual. That's why in competition there are classifications for age and in some cases weight. Will you find a 50 year old instructor stepping onto the mat or in the ring with a 20 something year old in competition? Highly doubtful........ Now take that same instructor and place him in a self defense position and we turn a different page. This is part of the problem with some of the arts today. They are too focused on the sport / competition aspect and this is what students want and expect from the instructor. They lose sight of knowledge offered and only want to see physical attributes. I pose this question.........Pro team sports coachs / managers are all past their playing prime, but are accepted for their knowledge and leadership abilities. Boxing trainers also fall into this catagory. They help mold the younger players, who have the physical talents, but now need fine tuning so to speak. Nobody is asking these coaches and managers to quantify their position by "taking the field" or getting back "into the ring". In the world of martial arts, it dosen't take a degree from MIT to root out somebody that is talking thru their hat.

Now I agree, to some extent, that a martial arts instructor should be able to physically do what is being expected from the student, unless there are real physical limitations. It dosen't have to be at the olympic level, but he should be able to show what it is he is trying to teach the students.
 

searcher

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Brad Dunne said:
"Adversarial freeplay", as it's being called, only shows the higher physical standards of an individual. That's why in competition there are classifications for age and in some cases weight. Will you find a 50 year old instructor stepping onto the mat or in the ring with a 20 something year old in competition? Highly doubtful........ Now take that same instructor and place him in a self defense position and we turn a different page. This is part of the problem with some of the arts today. They are too focused on the sport / competition aspect and this is what students want and expect from the instructor. They lose sight of knowledge offered and only want to see physical attributes. I pose this question.........Pro team sports coachs / managers are all past their playing prime, but are accepted for their knowledge and leadership abilities. Boxing trainers also fall into this catagory. They help mold the younger players, who have the physical talents, but now need fine tuning so to speak. Nobody is asking these coaches and managers to quantify their position by "taking the field" or getting back "into the ring". In the world of martial arts, it dosen't take a degree from MIT to root out somebody that is talking thru their hat.

Now I agree, to some extent, that a martial arts instructor should be able to physically do what is being expected from the student, unless there are real physical limitations. It dosen't have to be at the olympic level, but he should be able to show what it is he is trying to teach the students.
Nice post!!!! Leading by example is the way to go. I heard it once said that an instructor should never ask of his students what he would not ask of himself.
 

Spookey

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Dear All,

In response to the last post by Mr. Brad Dunne I would like to add a quote...


Be the eternal teacher who teaches with the body when young, with words when old, and by moral precept even after death. ~Choi Hong Hi
 

Adept

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Shane Smith said:
If a man cannot do himself that which he represents himself as having the ability to teach, he is leading people astray and not worthy of consideration as an Instructor of same unless old age or injury have diminished his capabilities after the fact.
I disagree entirely. Think about it in terms of a boxing coach, or a football coach. he doesn't need to be able to do it himself, or have ever done it well himself (although I concede it certainly helps) so long as he gives quality instruction. The only measure should be the quality of his instruction, not how well he fights or fought.
 

FearlessFreep

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In baseball, especially with pitchers, mediocre players often make better coaches than great players. Players with a lot of natural talent and skill often habe a hard time relating to or communicating with or empathsizing with people without as much basic skill. Players who have to succeed with less raw talent by being inventive and creative are often better able to help others find what *they* neeed to do to succeed
 
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