Utah's same-sex marriage ban ruled unconstitutional.

ballen0351

Sr. Grandmaster
Joined
Dec 25, 2010
Messages
10,480
Reaction score
1,244
It takes more than that to undo a ruling; clearly, you do understand stare decisis...
You do understand Courts can and have done this. The Supreme Court has over turned past rulings before, Surely someone of your expertise must know that

And in terms of ignorance, I expect nothing less from you. You are poorly educated on the law and parrot talk shows.
Well that's true I aint gots no fancy college I went in the Marines instead and I've never heard a parrot talk show is it about crackers
The reality with your position is that only white males would have the vote. You fail to understand that our Bill of Rights protect not only against governmental tyranny, but guard the rights of minorities against the whim of the majority.
No actually the reality of my position is people will come to a higher understanding on there own and will make laws that fix the problems without a judge you know like the 19th Amendment and 15th Amendment.
 

Rumy73

Black Belt
Joined
Jan 25, 2011
Messages
588
Reaction score
10
Location
Washington, DC
You do understand Courts can and have done this. The Supreme Court has over turned past rulings before, Surely someone of your expertise must know that


Well that's true I aint gots no fancy college I went in the Marines instead and I've never heard a parrot talk show is it about crackers

No actually the reality of my position is people will come to a higher understanding on there own and will make laws that fix the problems without a judge you know like the 19th Amendment and 15th Amendment.

You have seriously back peddled, which is fine. However, many folks who served this country also earned a degree. The GI Bill has benefitted many of them. Progress as a person comes down to drive and desire. One should not make excuses for ignorance.
 

ballen0351

Sr. Grandmaster
Joined
Dec 25, 2010
Messages
10,480
Reaction score
1,244
You have seriously back peddled, which is fine. However, many folks who served this country also earned a degree. The GI Bill has benefitted many of them. Progress as a person comes down to drive and desire. One should not make excuses for ignorance.
I haven't back peddled anywhere. Courts can and do change all the time like Ive said ALL along. And I'm not making excuses for anything I don't need a degree for my profession.
 
OP
Bob Hubbard

Bob Hubbard

Retired
MT Mentor
Founding Member
Lifetime Supporting Member
MTS Alumni
Joined
Aug 4, 2001
Messages
47,245
Reaction score
769
Location
Land of the Free
DENVER — A federal appeals court cleared the way on Tuesday for same-sex marriages to continue across Utah, denying an emergency request from state officials to halt a flood of unions that began after a lower-court judge declared the state’s ban on same-sex marriage to be unconstitutional.
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/25/us/appeals-court-refuses-to-halt-same-sex-marriages-in-utah.html

Strike 3.

When the judge denied Utah’s request, the state took its case to the appeals court in Denver, but the judges rejected Utah’s request. Mr. Rosky said the ruling suggested that the judges did not believe Utah was likely to succeed in its appeal defending the marriage ban, and that they saw no irreparable harm in allowing same-sex couples to wed.
The appellate court is set to hear arguments over Utah’s ban on same-sex marriage in the coming weeks.

Utah officials were busy Tuesday night planning an emergency appeal to the U.S. Supreme Court after a federal appeals court denied their request to stop same-sex marriages while they try to overturn a judge's ruling legalizing them.
In a two-page order (.pdf) entered late Tuesday in Denver, two judges on the 10th U.S. Circuit Court of Appeals declined to grant Gov. Gary Herbert's request for a stay halting the marriages while Utah pursues its appeal.
Herbert's office didn't return a call for comment, but the state attorney general's office — which filed the motion on his behalf — said it would seek an emergency stay with the Supreme Court as early as Thursday. That motion would be heard by Justice Sonia Sotomayor, who has jurisdiction over the 10th Circuit.
http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/201...-court-refuses-to-stop-same-sex-weddings?lite

Herbert asked for a stay Monday after U.S. District Judge Robert J. Shelby upheld his own ruling that Utah's ban on same-sex marriages is unconstitutional.
The appeals judges, Robert E. Bacharach and Jerome A. Holmes, fast-tracked Utah's appeal, but they said they wouldn't stop the marriages in the meantime, writing that the state would have a tough time proving that letting the marriages go ahead would cause "irreparable harm" or that it had a good shot at winning its appeal.
Bacharach was appointed to the court by President Barack Obama; Holmes was appointed by President George W. Bush.

Meanwhile:
Some county clerks in Utah refused Tuesday to issue marriage licenses to gay couples, even though they could face legal consequences after a judge struck down the state’s ban on same-sex marriage. The Utah attorney general’s office has warned counties they could be held in contempt of federal court if they refuse to issue the licenses.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...c07ef2-6c35-11e3-a5d0-6f31cd74f760_story.html

Meanwhile, Merry Christmas to the over 700 couples now married as a result of the courts choosing equality over antiquity. While this ontinues to wind through the courts, several thousand couples will wed. And Utah will not sink into Hell, time will not end, and the 7 plagues of Egypt won't return.
 

Rumy73

Black Belt
Joined
Jan 25, 2011
Messages
588
Reaction score
10
Location
Washington, DC
I haven't back peddled anywhere. Courts can and do change all the time like Ive said ALL along. And I'm not making excuses for anything I don't need a degree for my profession.

You would call a lawbreaker: a criminal. An uneducated person is likewise called ignorant. I am certain you despise political correctness... So you should accept it.
 

ballen0351

Sr. Grandmaster
Joined
Dec 25, 2010
Messages
10,480
Reaction score
1,244
You would call a lawbreaker: a criminal. An uneducated person is likewise called ignorant. I am certain you despise political correctness... So you should accept it.

Except the ignorant one would be you who didn't know courts can reverse each other. Maybe lay off the Rum there Rumy
 

ballen0351

Sr. Grandmaster
Joined
Dec 25, 2010
Messages
10,480
Reaction score
1,244
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/25/us/appeals-court-refuses-to-halt-same-sex-marriages-in-utah.html

Strike 3.



http://usnews.nbcnews.com/_news/201...-court-refuses-to-stop-same-sex-weddings?lite



Meanwhile:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/natio...c07ef2-6c35-11e3-a5d0-6f31cd74f760_story.html

Meanwhile, Merry Christmas to the over 700 couples now married as a result of the courts choosing equality over antiquity. While this ontinues to wind through the courts, several thousand couples will wed. And Utah will not sink into Hell, time will not end, and the 7 plagues of Egypt won't return.
Hope its not overturned in next lvl of courts I can't imagine how that would feel to be married and have a new judge say naa nevermind . I'm not really against Gay marriage to me marriage is a contract with God so the Govt should have never involved itself. I'm against backdooring legislation through the courts instead of doing it right and changing the law through the legislative branch or popular vote. .
 

granfire

Sr. Grandmaster
Joined
Dec 8, 2007
Messages
15,634
Reaction score
1,301
Location
In Pain
Hope its not overturned in next lvl of courts I can't imagine how that would feel to be married and have a new judge say naa nevermind . I'm not really against Gay marriage to me marriage is a contract with God so the Govt should have never involved itself. I'm against backdooring legislation through the courts instead of doing it right and changing the law through the legislative branch or popular vote. .

Unless you join a monastery, God ain't got nothing to do with marriage, it's a wordly thing, contract law.

But it would suck if all the folks running to get married now were to find out nener nener booboo, just kidding, you are not married after all.
 

ballen0351

Sr. Grandmaster
Joined
Dec 25, 2010
Messages
10,480
Reaction score
1,244
Unless you join a monastery, God ain't got nothing to do with marriage, it's a wordly thing, contract law.
Well that's your belief not mine. I swore my devotion to my wife before God. The state was a formality that ment nothing. Its just another way for the state to raise cash and show they are in charge.
But it would suck if all the folks running to get married now were to find out nener nener booboo, just kidding, you are not married after all.

Right. Change the law through legislation and you don't need to worry about it.
 

granfire

Sr. Grandmaster
Joined
Dec 8, 2007
Messages
15,634
Reaction score
1,301
Location
In Pain
Well that's your belief not mine. I swore my devotion to my wife before God. The state was a formality that ment nothing. Its just another way for the state to raise cash and show they are in charge.


Right. Change the law through legislation and you don't need to worry about it.

Atheists get the same legal rights when they sign the license at the court house. It's secular legal crap. Nothing holy.

The handful of bucks you pay gives you a set of legal rights that otherwise you would have to pay a small fortune for if you didn't buy 'the bundle' via marriage! The spiritual part? You get free.

http://theweek.com/article/index/228541/how-marriage-has-changed-over-centuries
When did people start marrying?
The first recorded evidence of marriage contracts and ceremonies dates to 4,000 years ago, in Mesopotamia. In the ancient world, marriage served primarily as a means of preserving power, with kings and other members of the ruling class marrying off daughters to forge alliances, acquire land, and produce legitimate heirs. Even in the lower classes, women had little say over whom they married. The purpose of marriage was the production of heirs, as implied by the Latin word matrimonium, which is derived from mater (mother).

https://upworthy-production.s3.amaz...2542a00030018ba/attachments/biblemarriage.jpg
http://wordofawoman.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/traditional-marriage.jpg
 
Last edited:

ballen0351

Sr. Grandmaster
Joined
Dec 25, 2010
Messages
10,480
Reaction score
1,244
Atheists get the same legal rights when they sign the license at the court house. It's secular legal crap. Nothing holy.

The handful of bucks you pay gives you a set of legal rights that otherwise you would have to pay a small fortune for if you didn't buy 'the bundle' via marriage! The spiritual part? You get free.

http://theweek.com/article/index/228541/how-marriage-has-changed-over-centuries


https://upworthy-production.s3.amaz...2542a00030018ba/attachments/biblemarriage.jpg
http://wordofawoman.files.wordpress.com/2012/05/traditional-marriage.jpg

F$60 isn't a few bucks. But If all you wanted was legal security sign a prenump and leave the state out of it all together.

Like I said I don't care about the state giving me "permission". I gave my vows before God. If people are happy with the power of their marriage resting with a court clerk good for them. To me it means a little more then that.
 

granfire

Sr. Grandmaster
Joined
Dec 8, 2007
Messages
15,634
Reaction score
1,301
Location
In Pain
F$60 isn't a few bucks. But If all you wanted was legal security sign a prenump and leave the state out of it all together.

Like I said I don't care about the state giving me "permission". I gave my vows before God. If people are happy with the power of their marriage resting with a court clerk good for them. To me it means a little more then that.

God isn't going to give a rip about who gets what. The preacher might...but that was not the point, and 60 bucks is pittance when you have to add form over document over legal this or that.

Things you get with one signature....it is a bargain. You do not ahev to file extra POA, living wills, wills, custody, hospital issues, next of kin, and what have you. 60 bucks and one stroke of the pen, done.

BTW, in a lot of places you can have the ceremony in church, but you had better signed the papers at the courthouse before hand.

I know, you are just being ornery again:
Church is church, and Schnaps is Schnaps. Marriages are about legal stuff, property...and last but not least, up until recent history, the wife was mere chattel....Husband in charge, and if she wasn't willing assault and rape was not a crime once the vows were exchanged...
marriage only happened because the male line needed tracking....

I cot married in the courthouse, is my marriage less than yours?
 

Steve

Mostly Harmless
Joined
Jul 9, 2008
Messages
20,464
Reaction score
5,958
Location
Covington, WA
Marriage is whatever it means to you. For many, it's simply formalizing an intent to commit for life. It's always been in "society's" best interest to encourage marriage, because people who are married tend to be more stable and conservative. So, in every culture throughout the world, people are encouraged to marry and have kids and "settle down" and be stable, productive, consistent members of society.

So, it's not any wonder that America would encourage marriage with tax incentives and other legal perks.

But, that in no way impacts the religious implications marriage holds for a lot of US citizens. As someone who is indifferent to religion, but who has been married for almost 20 years, I will say that in my experience, there's no one way to look at it. I personally would have no problem with the government getting out of the marriage business. But, since that's not going to happen, equal access for any two consenting adults to the perks will be enough for me.
 

ballen0351

Sr. Grandmaster
Joined
Dec 25, 2010
Messages
10,480
Reaction score
1,244
God isn't going to give a rip about who gets what. The preacher might...but that was not the point, and 60 bucks is pittance when you have to add form over document over legal this or that.

Things you get with one signature....it is a bargain. You do not ahev to file extra POA, living wills, wills, custody, hospital issues, next of kin, and what have you. 60 bucks and one stroke of the pen, done.

BTW, in a lot of places you can have the ceremony in church, but you had better signed the papers at the courthouse before hand.

I know, you are just being ornery again:
Church is church, and Schnaps is Schnaps. Marriages are about legal stuff, property...and last but not least, up until recent history, the wife was mere chattel....Husband in charge, and if she wasn't willing assault and rape was not a crime once the vows were exchanged...
marriage only happened because the male line needed tracking....

I cot married in the courthouse, is my marriage less than yours?
Marriage to me is a commitment to your spouse before God. Contract stuff is secondary and could be done without Govt.marryple make contracts all the time without Govt approval. None of this Gay marriage stuff would even be an issue if your didn't need Govt permission to marry in the first place.
 
Last edited:

Rumy73

Black Belt
Joined
Jan 25, 2011
Messages
588
Reaction score
10
Location
Washington, DC
Marriage to me is a commitment to your spouse beforeinter Contract stuff is secondary and could be done without Govt.marryple make contracts all the time without Govt approval. None of this Gay marriage stuff would even be an issue if your didn't need Govt permission to marry in the first place.

Ok Einstein, when a contract is broken ppl go to court to have it enforced or to seek damages. The presence of the courts makes for peaceable means of resolution. The court is the government! Absent courts, ppl might handle contracts a la wise guys like Tony Soprano.
 

ballen0351

Sr. Grandmaster
Joined
Dec 25, 2010
Messages
10,480
Reaction score
1,244
Ok Einstein, when a contract is broken ppl go to court to have it enforced or to seek damages. The presence of the courts makes for peaceable means of resolution. The court is the government! Absent courts, ppl might handle contracts a la wise guys like Tony Soprano.
Correct afterwards not before . Most contracts are made between Two people or groups without prior approval from the govt. Marriage doesn't need govt approval the govt just took that power. You have to go ask permission from the govt to be married. And lay off the nonsense name calling. If your not able to have a conversation without name calling then don't comment at all.
 
Top