Usefullness of sparring

[TMA17]

I'd add that it depends on how you spar too. Going at it hard is bad for the brain. Sparring gives timing, distance control and some sense of what it's like to be hit.

 

[jobo]

I'd add that it depends on how you spar too. Going at it hard is bad for the brain. Sparring gives timing, distance control and some sense of what it's like to be hit.

No, getting hit a lot is bad for the brain, but Hitting others does you no Harm e at all, well maybe a bruised thumb, but you can live with that

 

[jobo]

A bit more like having a driving instructor who has analyzed wrecks and found what works to avoid them in the moment and teaches those skills. That, of course, assuming there weren't very many people who actually drove, which is where your head is all tangled up. Not a bunch of people have both survived a multiple-opponent fight AND done the analysis to find out what seems to make a difference. Some bloke who happened to survive and doesn't really know why - nor whether that same strategy tends to be effective in other cases - isn't much help. If there were a bunch of folks with real-life experience teaching evidence-based multiple defense, I wouldn't bother. But there aren't, so I do what I can.

You always turn the discussion into a discussion about you, I'm sure your are diligent and realistic about what you teach, but that is not universally true, fighting multiple attacker on the times I've done it, is dependent on not stopping moving, it's a significant advantage to attack rather than defend, and it's a great help if you can put paid to the guy in a few seconds, once you engage in a wrestling match with one, your finished

 

[TMA17]

No, getting hit a lot is bad for the brain, but Hitting others does you no Harm e at all, well maybe a bruised thumb, but you can live with that

Yeah and when you spar hard you get hit a lot unless it's very one sided.

 

[Gerry Seymour]

You always turn the discussion into a discussion about you, I'm sure your are diligent and realistic about what you teach, but that is not universally true, fighting multiple attacker on the times I've done it, is dependent on not stopping moving, it's a significant advantage to attack rather than defend, and it's a great help if you can put paid to the guy in a few seconds, once you engage in a wrestling match with one, your finished

Um, the discussion WAS about me - you asked a question about my teaching. Was I supposed to reply with a reference to someone else? How would that address your question?

I agree not everyone teaches multiples well. Some seem to actually believe they and their students become invincible badasses who cannot be touched by fewer than 5 people. Of course, if they did some homework - even just an honest review of Youtube videos - they'd quickly learn that's not quite true.

And thanks for the input. Those are the tenets I try to hold to. As someone who is primarily a grappler, I had to learn that most grappling isn't useful there. If I get a great opening to put them down, I'll take it, but most of those openings seem to be for punches (not kicks so much, because gotta keep moving). The real focus of the training is your first point: keep moving. That's the part that gives you a chance. Without it, you'll only survive if they are lazy or just nice blokes.

 

[jobo]

Yeah and when you spar hard you get hit a lot unless it's very one sided.

Well that's bad technique, then, the idea is NOT to get hit, anybody can gets punched repeatedly on the nose, it takes no skill at all

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Well that's bad technique, then, the idea is NOT to get hit, anybody can gets punched repeatedly on the nose, it takes no skill at all

Depends the size of the nose, really, and whether your opponent is capable of consistently hitting a target that size.

 

[jobo]

Depends the size of the nose, really, and whether your opponent is capable of consistently hitting a target that size.

It's takes skill to punch a nose, but non at all to get punched.

People talking like getting punched in the head repeatedly, is an inevitable part of sparring The very first skill you need to learn, is not getting punched, at all preferably , but only to land a much hardEr shot of you are

 

[Gerry Seymour]

It's takes skill to punch a nose, but non at all to get punched.

People talking like getting punched in the head repeatedly, is an inevitable part of sparring The very first skill you need to learn, is not getting punched, at all preferably , but only to land a much hardEr shot of you are

It takes skill in finding someone who can punch you.

And I agree that not all hard sparring will result in head trauma. In fact, if both people are good at protecting their heads, it could be counter-productive to keep banging at each others' guards. Of course, much of the time, at least one of you is going to get his bell rung if you are both going hard.

 

[_Simon_]

It's takes skill to punch a nose, but non at all to get punched.

People talking like getting punched in the head repeatedly, is an inevitable part of sparring The very first skill you need to learn, is not getting punched, at all preferably , but only to land a much hardEr shot of you are

I would say actually that there is something about getting hit, mentally it's pretty important getting used to that, and it almost is a skill in a sense, moreso a learned adaption. Obviously not constantly getting hit to the head in your training, but being able to get used to the shock of being hit (which in a fight may very well happen) can help override the need to curl up in fetal position and keep moving etc.

But absolutely it's important training to not get hit as a first rule!

 

[Gerry Seymour]

I would say actually that there is something about getting hit, mentally it's pretty important getting used to that, and it almost is a skill in a sense, moreso a learned adaption. Obviously not constantly getting hit to the head in your training, but being able to get used to the shock of being hit (which in a fight may very well happen) can help override the need to curl up in fetal position and keep moving etc.

But absolutely it's important training to not get hit as a first rule!

From a self-defense perspective, getting past the shock of getting hit might actually be the most valuable part of sparring. Second to that is getting over the shock of an unending attack (so it doesn't become an overwhelming attack). Third is learning to apply some of your techniques under some variation of full resistance.

 

[jobo]

From a self-defense perspective, getting past the shock of getting hit might actually be the most valuable part of sparring. Second to that is getting over the shock of an unending attack (so it doesn't become an overwhelming attack). Third is learning to apply some of your techniques under some variation of full resistance.

Hmm, not sure if go that far, certainly being hit if your not used to being hit might have you freeze, and that's not really a good thing, but to take it further and Sugest that you should be punched In the head to trigger an adaption) as the guy above did) is taking it to far, there No adaption caused by being punched, you don't get better at being punched by being punched. NoR does getting over the shock of being punched require you to be punched in the head, the chest will do just fine and the chest with a pad in place works well.

That said, spirited Sparringg or even flow drills with real punched will inevitably lead to you being hit, That's good only in respect that it out a degree of jeopardy in the drill, and really all Drills should have a degree of jeopardy involved to encourage quick learning/ enfort. I do Push ups over a muddy puddle, it great at encouraging you not to give up and fall to the ground, just as practising balance on a 8 ft fence is much better than doing so on a 3ft fence. but that's no where near as good as practising on a fallen tree across a 5foot deep freezing cold stream, that really focusess the mind

Learning though discomfort is good, but what you are Learning is to avoid the discomforT. The discomfort isn't the learning, unless you like lying in a muddy puddle it being punched

 

[Gerry Seymour]

Hmm, not sure if go that far, certainly being hit if your not used to being hit might have you freeze, and that's not really a good thing, but to take it further and Sugest that you should be punched In the head to trigger an adaption) as the guy above did) is taking it to far, there No adaption caused by being punched, you don't get better at being punched by being punched. NoR does getting over the shock of being punched require you to be punched in the head, the chest will do just fine and the chest with a pad in place works well.

I'm not sure getting punched in the chest works for overcoming fear of being hit in the head. Note that I'm not talking about getting clobbered. Regular moderate sparring will end up with everyone eventually taking the occasional shot to the head, and that's plenty for getting past that shock reaction.

That said, spirited Sparringg or even flow drills with real punched will inevitably lead to you being hit, That's good only in respect that it out a degree of jeopardy in the drill, and really all Drills should have a degree of jeopardy involved to encourage quick learning/ enfort. I do Push ups over a muddy puddle, it great at encouraging you not to give up and fall to the ground, just as practising balance on a 8 ft fence is much better than doing so on a 3ft fence. but that's no where near as good as practising on a fallen tree across a 5foot deep freezing cold stream, that really focusess the mind

I shoulda read that before I started typing my reply. That was basically my point.

Learning though discomfort is good, but what you are Learning is to avoid the discomforT. The discomfort isn't the learning, unless you like lying in a muddy puddle it being punched

Yes.

 

[drop bear]

From a self-defense perspective, getting past the shock of getting hit might actually be the most valuable part of sparring. Second to that is getting over the shock of an unending attack (so it doesn't become an overwhelming attack). Third is learning to apply some of your techniques under some variation of full resistance.

Getting past the shock of the dynamics being different to drills factor in there pretty heavily.

 

[drop bear]

Hmm, not sure if go that far, certainly being hit if your not used to being hit might have you freeze, and that's not really a good thing, but to take it further and Sugest that you should be punched In the head to trigger an adaption) as the guy above did) is taking it to far, there No adaption caused by being punched, you don't get better at being punched by being punched. NoR does getting over the shock of being punched require you to be punched in the head, the chest will do just fine and the chest with a pad in place works well.

Have you ever face punched a kuyokashin guy?

 

[drop bear]

Learning though discomfort is good, but what you are Learning is to avoid the discomforT. The discomfort isn't the learning, unless you like lying in a m

Not really.
Good punching defence is not the same as avoiding punches at all cost.

Which is a reaction that generally screws people up.

 

[jobo]

Not really.
Good punching defence is not the same as avoiding punches at all cost.

Which is a reaction that generally screws people up.

What is the cost of not getting punched at all, it's sounds like a good out come to me, if I can also avoid getting kicked throttled or thrown through the air, it sounds like a A good night out to me

 

[drop bear]

What is the cost of not getting punched at all, it's sounds like a good out come to me, if I can also avoid getting kicked throttled or thrown through the air, it sounds like a A good night out to me

You get punched more. Because your structure goes to pot.

And the punches do more damage.

 

[jobo]

You get punched more. Because your structure goes to pot.

And the punches do more damage.

No if I avoid punches (at all cost,) I don't get punched, if I get punched I clearly haven't managed to avoid them

 

[JR 137]

That's like having a driving instructor that has never driven but has watched you tube and talk to a few drivers,

I was a CPR instructor for quite a few years. Never had to perform it other than on a mannequin. Does that mean I shouldn’t have taught the class?

I had two students successfully use the skills I taught them afterwards.

Edit: I’ve also had people in my class who’ve performed CPR before taking my class - recertifying lifeguards, EMS, etc.